Batting out of order
 

Haven't been able to find anything that addresses this particular boo situation. B2 mistakenly bats in B1 spot but team catches it during the at-bat (one or more pitches have been pitched). Does b1 take over the at-bat with the same count as b2 had? Is b1 called out even though the at-bat wasn't completed and then b2 bats with a fresh count?

B1 takes over with the same count as B2.

Batting out of order. Rule 6.07

Thanks.
 

Thanks Steven. I'm not a HS or college ump I just saw this play happen at a rec league game which uses NFHS rules and wondered about it. Don't have a rule book handy and couldn't find anything that specifically addressed this issue.

Thanks again.

Quick!
 

Lock this thread down now.

A nicely phrased question from a rookie poster, coupled with a polite, concise answer from a veteran, along with the appropriate rule reference.

How long until someone feels the need to spoil it? (present company excluded).

FED rule is 7-1-1 & 7-1-2.

Try this link for MLB rules.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info...s/foreword.jsp

Same result if the defense mentions the BOO while the incorrect batter is at the plate. Replace the incorrect batter with the correct batter and move on - no penalty.

Has this situation last week. B1 on base, B2 up but B3 comes up to bat. B3 hits a home run. B2 now comes up, and the defense throws a pitch to him (ball). Team's scorekeeper walks over to the manager to tell him of the BOO.

Defense thought we'd have outs, runs coming off the board, etc. They were mighty angry when all I did was bring B4 to the plate with a 1-0 count!

The early bird catches the worm, as the cliche goes. They were a pitch too late. Awww... :(

Procedural question.

The defense was pointing out B3 as having batted out-of-order. The pitch to B2 legitimized B3's at bat and B4 should be at the plate. B2 is now batting out-of-order. If the defense has said nothing about B2 being out of order, should we "bring B4 to the plate"?

Until they appeal BOO, we've got nothing.

In actual fact, the defense didn't say anything until afterwards, when they and their fans cried like babies. The offense (scorekeeper) called attention to the BOO, and because he waited for that 1 pitch I suspect that he knew the rule.

However, even if it had been the defense appealing B3 batting out of order, at that point the offense knew and I knew that B2 was the wrong batter. The pitch to B2 made B3 the proper batter, and that would mean that B4 should be batting. By rule, we bring the proper batter to the plate, no matter who points out the BOO. The only issue at that point is whether there's an out to be called or runners removed from base, and that depends on when the matter arises.

The conversation went like this (we used player's numbers, but I'm substituting B2, B3, etc. for consistency with the thread):

O-Coach: B3 just batted out of order.
Me: OK, who bats after B3? Him? (pointing to B2 at the plate)
O-Coach: No, B4.
Me: OK, get B4 up to the plate. The count's 1-0.

Then I explained it to the defense's coach.

D-Coach: So who's out?
Me: Nobody's out, coach. You pitched to the next batter, and that made B3 the proper batter. (I didn't add: and his 2-run homer counts.)
D-Coach: Somebody has to be out! They batted out of order!
Me: Coach, by rule, you have until the next pitch to catch the BOO. You pitched to the next batter, so we bring the proper batter to the plate, and he inherits the 1-0 count.

D-Coach left, mumbling...

I see your point mbyron. But if the defense wants an out, wouldn't they want the batter batting out of order to complete the bat and then appeal?

I agree that if the O-coach comes up that we should correct it. But, if we notice it and correct it ourselves, would we (possibly) be taking an out away from the defense?

I know I'm probably way off the porch, so please kick me back on it. ;)

Never ever do anything on your own when someone bats out of order! It's up to the defense to appeal it or the offense to realize and (possibly) correct their error.

Yes.


Unlike "illegal subs", this infraction can only be "reported" by either team. Even if we (umpires) know, we do nothing. If the fans say something, ignore them. If the official scorekeeper says something, ignore him /her at first and then admonish him / her to stfu (once a team acts or it's too late to act).

I actually had, during a tournament game several years ago, the official scorekeeper (meaning he wasn't representing a specific team; he was the tourney's scorer) yell loudly to me from the booth that the wrong guy batted. I eventually went over to politely tell him to STFU. :D

Right. In my situation, the O-coach came to me and told me that there was a problem. At that point, I enforced the rule, given the situation.

[QUOTE]It depends.

Suppose there is 2 outs and the number 9 batter was hitting in the number 8
batter's slot.

The Defensive manager might say something before the AB is complete so that the number 8 batter completes the TAB and instead of having the number 1 hitter leadoff the next inning the number 9 hitter would lead off the next inning - Could be a BIG difference.

The answers to these type questions depend upon many factors. Score of game who is at the plate who follows the correct batter etc.

If the clean-up hitter is up then I agree the DM would most likely keep quiet.

Pete Booth

But the O coach said nothing about B2 being out-of-order. He only brought up B3. By pointing out that B4 should be at bat, the comment in 6.07 was violated.

Rule 6.07 Comment: The umpire shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both teams.

I would not interpet the written rule that literally. Once anything about the batting order is questioned, get it all fixed.

That's a good interpretation of the rule and comment, Bob. The comment primarily directs umpires to not point out batting out of order before anyone even hints at it. When the offense initiates a discussion about it directly or indirectly, the umpire is permitted to get clarity on what's being done, even mentioning to the offensive manager that so-and-so should be up to bat. This isn't done, BTW, by yelling over to the defensive coach, "Hey, John! Bill here has the wrong batter up to bat so I'm telling him what to do."

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]Pete,

If I was managing in that situation, I'd let the #9 hitter complete his at bat and then appeal. This would make the proper batter (#8) out. The #9 batter would lead off next inning.

As a defensive strategy you always want to the let the BOO batter bat. You have an out one way or another, but what if he hits into a double play? You let that ride and see if the next batter is the one that is supposed to follow the one that just batted. If not let him bat too and you will get a third out after he is done by bringing up that he is not the correct batter.

Last year I was BU in a game where a guy batted out of order and grounded out. Offensive coach came out before the next pitch and told my partner he had batted out of order so my partner calls the correct batter out. Defensive coach comes out and says he will take the out instead. My partner calls me over and after brief discussion we let the out stand and the next batter was the one who followed the guy who just grounded out. Since defensive guy did not bring it up he was willing to take the out. Maybe the better hitter had been skipped, or maybe he was hoping for another out when the batter who followed the incorrect batter was not the correct batter.

DG, was your reasoning for letting the out stand due to the defense not appealling the BOO? The reasoning being that only the defense can appeal. Absent that you have nothing. Is that right?

Before I read that, I thought that once it was brought up either by the defense or offense you would be obligated to make it correct.

The double play would stand in Fed, not in OBR (not sure about NCAA). In OBR, you would declare the proper batter out and put the runners back on base. Source: The PUBC Umpire Manual, Pg. 13-15

You what? How can you allow the play to stand when the defense brings up BOO? If the defense brings it up, you've got to make the BOO ruling. There is no option of taking the play or penalty. This isn't a catcher's interference or defaced ball pitch here (OBR option plays).

UMP25,

If I'm reading DG's post correctly, it was the Offensive Coach who brought it up, after his improper batter had (unsuccessfully) completed his at bat.

The defensive coach said let it stand. Since he didn't bring it up, I believe the umpire's in DG's sitch ruled correctly in letting the play stand.

JM

JM, I believe that the point is that this is not a play where there is any choice (by either coach). Once BOO is brought to the attention of the umpire by either team, the umpire must rectify it according to the rule. This rectification will take different forms depending on the situation (a pitch thrown to the next batter or not, etc.). Nowhere is there scope for choosing to take the play, as in catcher's interference.

I agree that there's no "choice" once teh BOO has been appealed. But, once the batter has completed his turn at bat only the defense may appeal. So, if the offense comes out and says "that batter was improper", I'm giving the defense every chance to NOT appeal it (which has the effect of lettign the play stand).

I agree with Mr. Jenkins. That was my implication to begin with.

Only the defense can appeal BOO after the at bat is over. Since the defense coach did not he is choosing to take the play by not appealing BOO.

That was our reasoning after discussing with both coaches. The at bat was over, offensive coach came to the plate with his lineup card in hand, when defensive coach came out to see what discussion was about he was advised that we have a BOO and he said "I know, but I'll take the play, I'm not appealing it". That pretty much ended our discussion.

Thanks. I have only done FED ball lately. I will have to remember this when summer leagues start.

Per BRD, NCAA is same as OBR.

OBR and NCAA B.O.O. are the same.