Good Bye
 

I'll address this to young Canada:

What would you call someone who makes up comments, attributes them others and them posts them? What kind of person claimed Rob Drake make accusations about me, accusations that Rob Drake denies making?

What kind of person takes a poster's name, then pretends to be that poster on other sites making inane comments? (See http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/...1/m/3871070972 )

What kind of person tries that hard to destroy the name and reputation of another on the internet?

This is the kind of people you have allied yourself with, Canada. Is this who you really want to be?

Say what you will about me, Tee, and any other poster here. None of us have acted so maliciously as this. It takes a sick mind, Canada, to hate someone this much.

I wish you the best in the future. I hope you stick with umpiring, open your mind and learn the craft.

I will not post to you or anyone else on the internet again. The only way I can reclaim my name, is to make sure that people know I will not be participating anywhere on the internet.

I wish you all here the best. I will ask the owners of officialforum to delete my account.

I surrender. I do not have the ability to fight such hatred.

The inmates have taken over the asylum. This represents a failure of nerve on the part of the orderlies.

there's is no longer any respect here. I'm done also

As much as I hate to say this, I agree. Moderators need to step up and start deleting posts and threads which are not made in the intended spirit of this board. Otherwise, most of us will just stop coming around.

Garth, I am sorry to loose you to these people! I wish you would stay but I understand. I left McGruff's years ago for the same reasons - I am not leaving here.

Moderators, we have lost a very good friend here, it's time you guys step up and deal with this problem!

I agree also. I'm not an umpire, but I still have a love for the game. I read this forum out of that love. "Sad" is the only word that describes what a select few are doing to this particular forum.

I can remember when McGriffs was actually a great site for all sports officials. A few ruined it for everyone and the site degenerated into uncontrolled havoc...and folded. The same is now happening here. You have a clique of 3 posters who's only real interest in posting here is raising sh!t. Hell, they've as much as admitted that. You also have a few immature sycophants that think what they're doing is cool, and try to imitate them.

Jmo, but you can mess around and have fun with each other. You can also argue like hell...and quite heatedly at times too...as long as you don't take it personal. We do it on the basketball forum all the time. Just because you disagree(maybe vehemently) with someone doesn't mean that you don't respect them. However, what these people are currently doing is completely antithetical to the aims of this forum. They show absolutely <b>NO</b> respect for anyone else.

What's truly unfortunate is that the posters who have the knowledge and also are willing to share that knowledge are being forced off this site. That hurts all of us...who care.

Bob and Mick can't be here all the time, though.

This site used to have more moderators. I was one until I had a disagreement with Childress and he arranged to have my rights removed.

Frankly, I don't know if that's the answer, though. Idiots will be idiots. The current crop are doing some of the best trolling I've seen, though. They actually have succeeded, so far.

Rich,
I don't think I have had more that 10 reported posts all year, and only a few have been related to poster abuses with the rest related to spam or porn.

I delete what I see, when I see it (and, yes, sometimes I make mistakes -- deleting what shouldn't be; missing posts that should be). This means that a poster might see an "attack" and think, "that Jenkins lets anything go against me" only because I haven't been around to delete the post. Or, a poster might respond in kind, and I'm here "right away" to delete it, and the poster thinks, "that Jenkins has it in for me -- deleting even the most mild of my retorts." What posters (in general) don't see is all the posts I delete before they see them (huh?).

That said, over the past couple of weeks, I have been purposefully *not* deleting any but the most egregious posts (spam and purely vitriolic attacks). Call it an experiment to see what happens, or a response to some feedback that I was "over moderating", or a chance to see if certain posters would "self moderate." Whatever, it pretty clearly failed.

I deleted many posts from several threads (including some that hadn't been active for a day or so) this morning. I'll try to keep up. But, I ask that you *not* respond in kind to any attacks ("don't feed the trolls"). It makes the moderating more difficult and more time consuming.

Stay on-topic. Talk about umpiring (rules, mechanics, game management, equipment). Feel free to propose new ideas -- but recognize that an idea is not "good" or "bad" merely because it's new. Respond once or twice per thread per "session" -- do not feel the need to respond to every post in every thread. Treat new posters kindly -- at least until they prove they don't deserve it; then ignore them (and I don't necessarily mean to imply "use the ignore function.")

We've all known umpires with whom we "dreaad" working. The same applies here -- there are posters we "dread" reading. Don't be that poster.

Amen!

I have posted on BBS's (for other topics) for many years now. One thing I have noticed is that some members, usually ones in good standing and "popular" tend to "feed the fire" or certain personality types. If looked at objectively, they often are guilty of the very same type of thinking/actions they are complaining about!

I will not name names, or point fingers here. But I think maybe a dose of reality should be posted by SOMEBODY. If you don't agree with somebody, or their post seems really ridiculous to you, or silly, or just plain stupid, I certainly don't see any need not to share what you think. But to continue on with post after post of telling them that (which usually comes after a stinging retort by the offending person to you) with the intent of "changing their mind" is just as silly. Also, much of what some people say has to be handled just like we are encouraged to handle it on the ball field. If you know you are right in your mind, why even respond to ridiculous stuff? Let them have the last word and be done with the conversation. Sure, they might have taken a few cheap shots. Made a few underhanded comments. Beat around the bush of calling YOU an idiot. LET IT GO!

Garth doesn't HAVE to leave. Neither does Rob Drake. I have lost a little respect for both for even posting their little "Dear John" goodbye posts here. That kind of thing is just as silly as ANYTHING somebody here could have done.

I KNOW what I am about. I KNOW where I stand in umpiring. I KNOW I am not perfect. I KNOW I am good too! ;) There is not one of you here that can shake any of that! I think most mature, rational, informed posters here know when somebody is being ridiculous. I don't need to feed the fires (of course, that is sort of what I am doing here he? ;)) and defend myself when somebody is being difficult here. I just let it go and move on.

NOT A SINGLE THING THAT GOES ON HERE EFFECTS THE JOB I DO ON THE FIELD, except for possibly learning some new things that help!

I am here to share my experience and read others. I think THAT is the spirit of this site.

Bob, I commend you for staying out of most of this. I encourage you to let the community sort things out. Overly moderated sites have no personality. While I agree that spam, and outright hostile/threatening/offensive comments should be deleted, for the most part, I think we are all adults here. If a guy can't walk away from a conversation that isn't going his way, and continues to blast the other person, stuff like that will never change, no matter how much you moderate. I say, better to keep it a bit loose than to tighten up. You can strangle out all possibility of learning if you over-moderate a forum.

Lighten up people. It is just the internet! ;)

Garth-

I am sad to see you go, I have always enjoyed reading your posts. I hope you reconsider one day but if not, you will be missed.

I hope the reference to "Canada" is who I think it is.
As an ump from Canada , I would not like this to be a black
spot against all from this country as I believe most are beyond this. I guess it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel . I will continue on here as long as it stays civil !!
Regards to all.

Garth, your reputation is intact with me and probably the vast majority of the non-trolls who monitor this site. I'm disappointed that you (and several other knowledgable posters) respond to personal attacks whose primary purpose is to derive pleasure from causing you to respond, and that you don't trust us to recognize those attacks as a statement about the poster making them and not about you.

And I'm disappointed that I and others are no longer going to benefit from your wisdom and experience. Please reconsider for the good of baseball umpiring. Come back and ignore the trolls.

I have probably been one of the most attacked, mocked, had more names thrown my way than just about anyone here. It has been done on this site and many others. The more and more I have learned about the internet is you cannot respond or get involved in every discussion. I even had a person that claimed he knew me coming here and trying to ruin my reputation and claimed I would not do this and would not do that and I did less than a year accomplish all those things. I think Garth (if you are still here) you have to your frustration have tried to be a moral authority on all subjects in a lot of areas. The problem with that is you cannot do that and be successful. And it is a waste of time. There are people here that hate my guts and have never met me. But they do not have the balls to step to me like a man and say something to my face or let their name be known behind their words. After all of that I am still here. Not so much as I used to be, but I am smarter when and who I respond to. I think Garth has been a valuable member to this site even with the reality is we have disagreed many times over the years. It is sad that he would allow some troll to win rather than just ignoring them and realizing some people are not here to help others.

Peace

Garth, it would be trully sad if you no longer post here. I for one enjoy and learn from your posts. It is pathetic when a few individuals with dubious intentions ruin it for the rest of us. I for one, won't allow these people to do that. I trully ignore them, in the hopes they will 'go away'. Eventually, if we all do that, they will get tired of arguing with themselves.

This forum is too valuable to let it be ruined by a small minority. Let's not let that happen.

I have a suggestion - should ALL of us simply place our trolls on the ignore list they will give up soon enough. Sure they can create new accounts but that's easy, as moderators can just keep removing them (Easy to find a pattern for a new poster).

Let's not let a very small number of fools destroy a valuable tool.

I have a better idea. Why not just ignore them. You should not need a button to realize when someone is not added to the discussion, you talk over and around them. These people still show up on the thread, but ignore what they have to say. It is not like you have to read every response anyway.

Peace

Mick,

The number of posts if reported would overwhelm you. It would be best to remove a small number of accounts (The three problem accounts - could be the same person).

Once they have been removed it should be very easy to track posts on the new accounts they set up & just kill them.

Should something not be done I suspect a great number of posters will leave. It's just not worth dealing with garbage like this.

Having run some large BB's myself I clearly understand the work load. It's unfortunate that a very small number of individuals are able to ruin what is otherwise a great place.

Aren't we the enlightened one? Do you think Garth would walk away from verbal sparring? You don't know him very well.

I think that what has happened with Rob and Garth is a bit more than you understand. Trolls have gone beyond the name calling and arguing. They have stolen identities and used them on the internet. They have made up their own "facts" and are posting them, boldy and unquestioned. These trolls have progressed from being a mild nuisance to being unethical, slanderous and unstoppable. They are the internet version of terrorists.


The cloak that the internet provides gives cowards like these trolls cover and makes them feel invincible. We are all one post away from pissing one of them off and finding ourselves in the same situation as Rob and Garth.

No, Rei, this is more serious than you think. And I would not be so quick to lose respect for two former posters who became victims of slander and took the time to warn the rest of us of what was going on. We won't know how you will handle finding your name being used on posts you didn't write until it happens.

Garth used to chide me for using a pen name. He used to tell me that using his real name signified that he wasn't afraid to stand behind what he posted and that only cowards used pen names. I maintained that the internet was a dangerous place where whackos lurked and providing any of them with more information about you than they needed was foolish.

I am sad to be in the position of saying, "I told you so."

Unfortunately, Rob and Garth are only the two most recent victims. There is a pattern to what has taken place. The ignore feature or simply ignoring posts, in my opinion, won't make the problem go away.

It is time for the moderators to put a stop to it, or lose that which they moderate when we all walk away.

I use my real name and people have used my name to try to make it seem like it is me. It does not work very well because you have to know more about me than I reveal here. And if people are dumb enough to take what people say on the internet without corroboration. There are people that try to mock very well know people and it does not work. You have to do better than just taking someone's name. You have to know more about them than what they present on the board.

Peace

t-rex,
I do not think MrUmpire was talking about hi-jacking identities within this forum. I believe he was talking about the unregistered use of names and the identity theft being used in other similar forums.

MrUmpire is well respected here and could perhaps clear that up.

I wasn't speaking of hijacking identities, per se, but rather choosing identities to lampoon other members.

The name fitump was chosen for a reason. The name on the HS ball forum was chosen for a reason. I reiterate, it appears to be a pattern that I am witnessing.

Mick,

While true for the most part (We have had trolls create identities that insult posters here) it still doesn't address the issues we face here.

socalblue1,
The number of reported posts may be tough to handle, but I don't know that for a fact. I know that I respond to them.
As far as the same person using muliple usernames, yes, more then you imagine. If you see a real active instigator, and then suddenly he has a comrad, it often is the result of a user who is "talking to himself" and backing up his alter ego". Likewise bonafide contributors will use multiple usernames, for whatever reason, to make a specific point.

Tracking a problem is not as difficult as defining a problem. That is where the help is needed. The users of any particular forum have the ability to report posts and posters that, seemingly, are intent on making forum useage uncomfortable. The users of a forum, rather than joining in on a counter-attack, can report/ignore/avoid any given poster. Private messaging is available to give a moderator more information or to lodge a complaint.

Since at any given time, only a few users are responsible for the worst problems, they can be easily sent to the dugout or to their car.


Many users believe the moderators should be more proactive and police each thread. I do not. I am not a marshall, nor do I want to be. I want to be considered more of an orderly and for our good users to be the doctors.

If someone pukes, tell me and I'll clean it up. If someone makes the sheets brown, tell me and I'll clean it up. If some sick psycho goes weird, tell me and I'll move him to another room.

I do not read every thread, nor do I want to read every thread, but I will, from time to time, be reading a thread and make a post or thread, that I adjudge to be objectionable or potentialy inflammatory, go away. But I will not deal with each post that marginally bothers me, because I think that a free exchange is important to learning and that I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Our users are young and old, Little League and Big League, newbees and experienced, old school and cutting-edge. Our personalities require us to be reasonable, blunt, controlling and decisive, with a touch of compassion, patience and understanding. We are quick to react to any action. With few exceptions we enjoy what we do in spite of, or because of, the challenges in front of us.
We use these tools on the field because we are always carrying them in our pouch. And they are good tools when used in a professional manner.

So what can we do in this fight for peace ?
Use the tools.

• Be more patient with newbees.
• Report idiots.
• Ignore idiots.
• Be tolerant and patient with idiots.
• Eliminate name calling.
• Understand differences.
• Count to 10.
• Do not feed trolls.
• Respect your sport.

No Ump29, Garth was not referring to you. He was referring to one who uses your Country's name as an umpire.

The Yellow Brick Road
 

Garth, call me stupid but your link took me to a high school baseball site.
Was I suppose to look through it for you to find any substance to your allegations?
Would you provide a clue?
--------------------------------------------
Updated to add thank you to ctblu40 for the clue.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums?...1&u=3871088972
I would have to ask Dash-Riprock here, what he said to Garth, to send him over the edge like this. But that is none of my business.
Also recognized some well-respected, long time posters there who are not mocking anyone.

Took a mental health day from my real job to work a DH today.
Also have a DH tomorrow. My brain should be fine, excuse me, "right again" by Monday.

Go to the "Ask The Umpire" room at that forum...

I must say that this whole thing has become surreal. I find it utterly astounding that a person who has never met another can dislike or even hate that much.

As far as the trolls, if we don't feed them, they will move on. I think for the most part, each of us visit these forums for the same two reasons:

1. We want to learn and therefore improve ourselves.
2. We want to showcase our knowledge to help others improve

I'm sad to see Garth go... even though I didn't always agree with him, I certainly did learn from him.

I appreciate what you are saying, but, I think I am quite aware of what is going on. I can read. ;)

That crap is happening elsewhere, and it would not be allowed here. To give up posting here because of stuff happening elsewhere just seems silly to me.

Concerning a very different topic, I have a name presence on some BBS's concerning that topic. I am published, and am sought after for advice. You would not believe the vicious stuff that has been posted about me by the same kind of people that Garth and Rob are dealing with.

I have never stopped sharing my knowledge on that topic, and in fact, was banned from a site for my retribution to some guys that were targeting me. Oh well. I went to a site where they don't ban, and moved on.

I think some people tend to take the things said to/about them on a BBS FAR too seriously, and think it is damaging their reputation when it is in fact not! It is JUST the internet. ;)

Not much of an 'if' here, Jeff. Most people believe what they read without giving a thought of its source. Sad, but true.

Somebody created a screen name of "The All Knowing Garth", lists his home state as Washington and uses the WFB quote used by GarthB as the sig line. Dislike? Hate? It just seems like satire to me; a mocking of Garth's tendency to come across like a charter member of the umpiring-knowledge oligarchy.

That aside, I think you guys give the OF and the internet BBs in general way too much credit. It's entertainment far more than information. Just looking at OF, at a given point today it had 16,717 registered members and a bit over 464,000 posts. The top 60 posters accounted for 224,000 of the posts--about 48%. While certainly some good information can be found here from time to time, it is really more the personal playground for a few guys who either like to debate or have something to say about everything than it is a "valuable tool". There's precious little original material here; its greatest value is in the ability to get someone else to look up things for you in order to feed their need to be recognized as an expert.

While the baby left, so did the bath water. Garth did his fair share and more of lampooning people, but when somebody did it back, it was characterized as a "personal attack." He had tons of posts that were better suited to private emails (his health problems, his family life, etc.) than posting on a BB. His leaving will likely open the door for wider participation by people who didn't care to post as long as he was around. Many of them have resumes, too.

Just because people try to give offense doesn't mean you have to take it.

I think it's time I added my 2 cents worth, as Garth's post was addressed to me and I have been a topic of discussion in this thread. There are a lot of points to address and I will do so in a poster-by-poster manner.

First of all Garth, despite the fact that you and I have quarreled over the past, I do regard you as a decent person. I do think you and I both made mistakes along the way- I said some very immature things, and in looking back a few months ago I realize I came on way too strong at times. I do feel that you provoked me on occasion, which caused me to say some things I shouldn't have.

Unfortunately I cannot comment on what Donovan or Walter may have done with your name as I did not find any evidence of it occurring. The fact that I have no evidence of their actions does not rule out the possibility of it happening.

I would like to explain to some of my harsh critics exactly why I allied myself with Walter and Donovan. I sign up an account for umpire.org, am uninformed of some of the customs that take place there, and get lambasted for it. I sign up for this forum, get along a bit better, but am still called a "troll" and other unkind things by people who have nothing better to do with their lives than put down others. I start saying stupid things, partly to get a few people going, and partly as an act of defiance against those who have upset me. Pile-ons ensue, due in part to the fact that I said some immature things.

Then a guy called fitump56 joins the board. He makes over 10 posts a day just like I did when I first started out at umpire.org. He and I share a chuckle over the PM system over how many posts he makes. Eventually he takes a stand for me when I get piled on. Naturally, I return the favour and stick up for him when people call him an "idiot" and a "troll".

Now tell me, would most of you not be tempted to take fitump's side if he stuck up for you when you were being attacked? Is it really that surprising that I would side with fitump and InterestedUmp? NEVER have they called me a troll or made other personal remarks. Or should I just side with the good guys? The guys like Ozzy who call me an idiot, a WOBW, among other nasty things. Who would you guys side with if faced with my situation? Think about it and tell me if you can blame me for taking their side.

While I am not impressed with how Walter and Donovan reacted towards Mr. Drake in the past couple of days, I do still do have quite a bit of sympathy for them. They get called nasty things, and get accused of bringing this forum downhill, just as I do.

I am afraid I simply do not know what they are being accused of doing on the high school forum. It sure seems a bit much to tarnish Garth's name, but I do not think he is totally innocent in this case either.

Now for the people that cite me as a reason for this forum going downhill, in particular socalblue. I think the claim that I am a troll who has ruined this place is complete and utter BS. I have rarely made more than 2 post in the past few days. I NEVER impersonated anyone. I simply stood by the guys who treated me decently. To be considered a "problem account" for doing next to nothing is OUTRAGEOUS. Isn't it ironic that socalblue, the same man who has made snide remarks at me in the past, is now blaming me for the downfall of this forum.

Ump29, I take offence to what you said about me being a "black spot" against umpiring in Canada. I haven't done anything to deserve that kind of a remark. What a disgusting thing to say about a fellow blue brother.

I think that what has transpired here over the past few days is a good lesson to the veterans of this forum that their words do have consequences just like anybody else's. Nonetheless, I do not condone malicious or dishonest behaviour in any form, and do not support online slander from either party. Garth, I am sorry to hear that things went as far as they did, and thank you for thinking of my best interests in your final post.

sucks to see Garth leave. hes one of the only people i read on here, especially in the last year or two.

i guess its a good thing im not a moderator/admin on this site, becuase on another site i admin i will just delete (and keep deleting) any and all trolls no matter how many times they come back.

my guess is that he'll be back. i don't know him, that's just my guess. Time will tell.

It pains me to have read the stuff that has lead to some of the good posters to leave this forum, but I understand why and agree with their decision.

For those of you, who have caused this thing to get to the point it has right now, please do not come back. You are ruining the opportunity for those who enjoy this site and learn information from this site to do just that.

Don't spoil it for everyone else.

Why do you care what some person you will never met, know or deal with thinks? That is the problem right there if you ask me. And I care even less when it is with people I do not know.

Peace

GB, I too wish you would reconsider. I hate to see someone with your insight leave this forum due to the rantings of a few dumb a$$'s.

Another member of the toll family speaks out.

Publius (or FitUmp, InterestedUmp, Steven Tyler or whoever you really are), how about this:

Somebody, possibly the man in your mirror, posts a statement claiming as fact that Rob Drake spoke to them disparagingly about Garth. The real Rob Drake then said that was a lie.

Then, coincidentally, someone posts on a different site using Garth's name, his signature line and his home state.

Satire? Doubtful. It would be easier to accept this as satire if it occured where Garth and those of us who know him post. Satire requires that the audience know the target. To post on a board full of people who had never heard of Garth or knew of his opinions is not satire. That post was intended to be hidden from its target. The intent was obviously more malicious.

Garth saw this as an escalation that could easily get out of control. If these idiots progressed to that level, at what point would they move to the next level of stealing his, or someone elses identity?

You are right in one regard. He did reveal too much of his personal life and that, too, became fodder for the manure throwers. He says that is one of many lessons he has learned.

Now, go back under your bridge.

Jeff,

I wasn't arguing your point. Simply stating that it will happen. Personally, I don't care what people whom I have no respect for think of me.

I was not arguing any point, just stating a truth.

Peace

That's part of the problem. Some of us prefer to use it for information. Those who wnat to use a forum for entertainment are free to do so -- on their own forum.

t-rex,
I do not understand your inferences.
Are not most names chosen for a reason?
What HS ball forum?
What pattern?
Thanks.