How to handle?

bobbybanaduck

if you can come up with a better term for me i will gladly replace "old guard" in my post. i think you know what group of people, in general, i was talking about.

GarthB

bobbybanaduck wrote
if you can come up with a better term for me i will gladly replace "old guard" in my post. i think you know what group of people, in general, i was talking about.

Yep, I do. But unfortunately there are some strange ones here that will utilize your reference to "old guard" as evidence to support their "no guard" positions.

Smitty's and Charlies come to mind.

fitump56

canadaump6 wrote
I had an umpire come up to me uninvited a few years ago and tell me the running lane interference wasn't called in that league.

We can stop right there. Any blue who comes to you to lecture you needs to get the shove. If he is wrking with you, then he can make a suggestion, clarification, that's all. You can discuss later. If he's not wrking with you, he needs to STFU. Unless he's buying the martinins of course. 😀

He was an old guard and so I gave in. Now I'd be either ejecting him from the game or walking off the diamond.

Typical Old Guard. No communicaton skilss especially with the youner umpires. Everything is a lecture, never n educaion.

Looking down this thread, I see that you are getting criticized, wow, new, eh?

We, the older umpires, which predominate this forum, are on our way out. You, the younger umps, are on the way in. This threatens the BeJesus out of the Olg Guard, their days are fast n the past.

These are the same umps who will say "Show me up, player, I'll dump you" but when an old Guard umpire shows up a young man newer to the game, it's "for hos own good."

Yeh, right, the hypocrisy is so deep one can barely see out. 🙄

fitump56

rookieblue wrote
What a piece of work. I really have to remember to log in before reading these threads.
"...a humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Ps li

New Guard, same as the Old Guard. Hyporites.

UmpJM

GarthB wrote
...unfortunately there are some strange ones here that will utilize your reference to "old guard" as evidence to support their "no guard" positions. ...

Quod erat demonstrandum! 😎

fitump56

GarthB wrote
Tom:

The term "old guard" is often used here to disparage anyone with whom a poster may disagree.

A blatant lie and howwould you know, anyone who uses that term is on your Ignore List? 🙄

"Old Guard" stans for the umpires who abuse their positions of authority and experience. Who refuse to mock up into the real world of the 21st century.

fitump56

GarthB wrote
Tom:

Now to the meat of your post. I agree wholeheartedly. It makes little sense to fight change when it is being driven by those in control.

Glad yu weren't around during the 'Nam War and the 60s.:rolleyes:

fitump56

bobbybanaduck wrote
the game has changed over the years and so has the umpiring. certain things used to be done certain ways in the bigs, and they have gotten vastly different as the game has evolved. my question to you is; why would you not try to evolve as an amateur umpire as the professional ones do each year?

1) Change is uncomfortable for the old Guard. It means theyhave to think new thoughts, re-analyze their past philosophies...think neo-conservatives.

there are guys every year that go to one of the umpire schools and either already are frequent posters on sites like these, or become frequent posters after they are introduced to the umpiring world and find their way here. furthermore, there are guys on these boards that currently teach at or are in direct contact with current instructors and have access to all the current teachings. why would you not want to work the way these guys were taught or are teaching?

See above.

the things that are taught at the schools are the result of hundreds of evaluations being done each year and are tuned to how the game has evolved. there are always mentions of the "old guard" on here, and i see posts made by this guard all the time. while some things they offer are invaluable and come from years of experience, many of the things the "old guard" do and teach are things that are just plain outdated.

Yet they will defend them to the hilt. Usually by smearing those who point out their deficiencies.

why would you be satisfied doing things the way you've been doing them for years and not updating your techniques as often as possible? time honored techniques are a thing of the past. we live in the information age and the available information should be taken advantage of. in your regular profession, do you attend clinics, seminars, training sessions and the like to get better at what you do? why not employ the same theory to your umpiring?

You really think they do that in their real lives? I don't.

fitump56

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck
if you can come up with a better term for me i will gladly replace "old guard" in my post. i think you know what group of people, in general, i was talking about.

GarthB wrote
Yep, I do. But unfortunately there are some strange ones here that will utilize your reference to "old guard" as evidence to support their "no guard" positions.

Smitty's and Charlies come to mind.

As Ipointed out, the Old Guard has nothing left except to smear those with pejorative terms, those that point out their deficiences and challenge their outdated methodologies.

fitump56

Rufus wrote
Had a situation last night where a ball was hit to our 2b who bobbles the ball, gains control, and throws to our 1b (full disclosure, my son was playing 1b). 1b makes a large split reaching for the throw, catches it, and holds the position. There were runners on base so the field ump was in between the mound and first (I know there is a term for the positions of the field ump, just not sure what that is). Field ump calls him safe and motions that 1b came off the bag (for what it's worth the 3b coach and bench coach of the other team - their bench was on the 1b side of the field - both came up to me after the 1/2 inning and said his foot was on the bag).

I started to go onto the field to ask the field ump what he saw and, assuming he would reiterate his call that 1b came off the bag, wanted to ask if we could ask the PU if he had a different view (there were other base runners so PU may have been looking at them - I still wanted to ask the question though). I knew that yelling across the field "Can we ask your partner if he saw it differently?" wasn't appropriate and so wanted to have the conversation in a normal speaking voice.

Before I got 2 steps out of the dugout the PU informed me that it was a judgment call and that I cannot be on the field. Not wanting to delay the game or, more to the point, get tossed from the game, I went back to the dugout.

My question is this - when, if ever, can a coach come onto the field to discuss a play such as this? Also, when, if ever, can you request that the umpire making a call see if his partner had the same thing?

Please understand that I'm not asking this just to get the call reversed. We won the game 14-9 so there's no bitterness or anything going on here. I'm more interested in making sure I don't waste time during a game with events such as this if there is no recourse. I also realize that sometimes officials get "straight-lined" or don't see a play clearly that the other official may. My intent is to try and figure out if there is a way/time to ask their partner for their view or if I just need to get over it and play ball.

Thanks in advance.

You have a tele number if you want a complete explanation.

canadaump6

rookieblue wrote
What a piece of work. I really have to remember to log in before reading these threads.

You'd better not be referring to me.

canadaump6

fitump56 wrote
We can stop right there. Any blue who comes to you to lecture you needs to get the shove. If he is wrking with you, then he can make a suggestion, clarification, that's all. You can discuss later. If he's not wrking with you, he needs to STFU. Unless he's buying the martinins of course. 😀

Typical Old Guard. No communicaton skilss especially with the youner umpires. Everything is a lecture, never n educaion.

Looking down this thread, I see that you are getting criticized, wow, new, eh?

We, the older umpires, which predominate this forum, are on our way out. You, the younger umps, are on the way in. This threatens the BeJesus out of the Olg Guard, their days are fast n the past.

These are the same umps who will say "Show me up, player, I'll dump you" but when an old Guard umpire shows up a young man newer to the game, it's "for hos own good."

Yeh, right, the hypocrisy is so deep one can barely see out. :rolleyes:

I'm experienced with old guards. One thing I learned from last year was that you have to play the political game to advance. That is something I plan on doing this year to help me move through the ranks. And of course kiss some butt until I get a chance to prove I'm better than the old guards.

canadaump6

fitump56 wrote
A blatant lie and howwould you know, anyone who uses that term is on your Ignore List? :rolleyes:

I was wondering this myself. Maybe he has a friend PM him all our posts.😃

canadaump6

MrUmpire wrote
Odds are, he is.

I don't even know this rookie guy, but all of a sudden he has a beef with me and has to call me a name? And for what? Saying that I would walk off the field or a eject my "partner" if he tried to overrule me and not stop arguing with me about it? "I don't understand why you would do that" would have been a much more civil way for him to express his feelings.

Welpe

So what rule, other than 9.01(c), would you use to justify "ejecting" your partner?

MrUmpire

canadaump6 wrote
You'd better not be referring to me.

"Oh, a tough guy, eh????"

Interested Ump

Posted by fitump56
A blatant lie and howwould you know, anyone who uses that term is on your Ignore List?

I was wondering this myself. Maybe he has a friend PM him all our posts.

MrUmpire wrote
Odds are, he does.

Not odds, but evens, since you have gloriously admitted to doing so. 😛

Back to umpiring. Canadaump was not clear (to me) that he was working with an Old Guard official. Taking that clarification, let me suggest, in humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents.

Canadaump, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. 😮

I would have thanked him for his advice. Asked for any other suggestions, with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents, nodded thankfully. Gone about my way.

Of course, each half inning, I would cower, I would have thanked him for his advice. Asked for any other suggestions, with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents, nodded thankfully. Gone about my way.

When the game was over, as they all do, with the patience hat I have shown, mixed with great gratitude, I would have thanked him for his advice. Asked for any other suggestions, with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents, nodded thankfully. Gone about my way.

As we near our cars to leave, head down, I would have thanked him for his advice. Asked for any other suggestions, with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents, nodded thankfully. Then I would have asked humbly,with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents,

"Was it worth you showing me up, breaking the trust that I had in you, to be on my side? It is only us out there, was it worth it for you to leave me feeling isolated and alone to get across a single, inconsequrntial point that was nothing more than an attempt on your part to Old Guard me, influence and power play me?

But then that is me, Canadaump.😃

Deej calls me "Mr. Nuclear Bomb". I tend to hold back, with humility and grace, of which I am known, respected and admired across continents, then whenceuponed, level the "territory" about.

😀

Kid, and you know I mean that well, you have to put up with all kinds of sh**, when a fellow umpire does it to you?

😠 😠 😠 😠 😠 😠

Try a new dance
So afraid of any new romance
Be so drunk to try a new dance?

fitump56

Welpe wrote
So what rule, other than 9.01(c), would you use to justify "ejecting" your partner?

Why need two,that one works.

Interested Ump

Rufus wrote
Ozzy - yes, it is painful to watch. The interesting thing is that he had another similar play where he stretched out like that a couple of innings later, kept his foot on the base, and the batter-runner was called out. Discussing it with my wife on the way home we thought that it might have not been called the first time because it isn't "normal" for 11U players in a rec league to stretch like that and still stay in contact with the base. Once the BU saw he could, however, maybe he looked more carefully next time? Not sure, but still happy with the result!

Rufus

From a former coach of three sons, all umpires, one distressed baseball wife (Team Mother for Eternity?), pieces of advice.

What you do, your style and grace, is what your children will remember you for. Every time you feel the urge to approach sports officials, remember that.

When other fathers had problems with their player sons, I never did. My wife, God Bless her, kept reminding me why I was coaching in the first place.

"What you do, your style and grace, is what your children, and the other children, will remember you for."

When their ball was over, I took that and became a strength and power trainer "What you do, your style and grace, is what your children and others will remember you for."

FYI.

Interested Ump

canadaump6 wrote
I'm experienced with old guards. One thing I learned from last year was that you have to play the political game to advance. That is something I plan on doing this year to help me move through the ranks. And of course kiss some butt until I get a chance to prove I'm better than the old guards.

No doubt about it. The Old Guard makes certin that there is a steep ladder you have to step. This is singly the most prevalent path of determined resisance, I have had to climb it, it is not fun nor is it self inspiring.

Unless you step back and look at the now and the when.

Your day will come. Until then, keep our head high and ask yourself:

"Are you part of the solution or part of the disease?"

The disease will kill you, the solution cure you.

Then throw that mask back on and do your best.

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