Home run or double?
 

Batter hits a drive deep down the RF line. F9 leaps for the ball, which hits the tip of his glove over fair ground and deflects over the fence to the right (foul) side of the pole.

A. Four-base award
B. Two-base award
C. Four-base award if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball would have gone over the fence had it not been touched by F9, otherwise, 2 bases.
D. Can't think of a D

OBR is answer B.

6.09 (h)

Thanks.

Two bases in any discipline.

True for OBR and NCAA, but four bases in FED.

"8-3-3 Each runer is awarded:
a. four bases (home) if a fair ball goes over a fence in flight...."

This batted ball is fair (2-5-1f), in flight (2-6-1) and went over a fence.

Check the casebook.

Garth,
The only potentially relevent entry in the casebook that I am aware of is 8.3.3F. In that case, the ball hit the fence before the fielder, and is no longer in flight.

Can you give me a hint as to which case you have in mind?

By your interpretation, if a fly ball down RF line is knocked over the fence running perpendicular with RF it would be a 4 base award.
Is that the intent of the rule

CO ump,

It's not my "interpretation" of the rule, that's explicitly what the rule says. Is it what the rulemakers intended? I don't know.

as long as the fielder was in fair territory when he made contact with the ball and knocked it over the fence that would still be considered a 4 base award. just think about jose canseco.. the ball hit off his head and went over. Homerun.

The Jose bounce went over the fence in fair territory. We're discussing one that hit the fielder fair then went over in foul territory.

OBR 6.09(h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.


NCAA: 8-3-o. Each runner is entitled to two bases: (2) If a fair ball bounces or is deflected into foul territory outside the playing field and goes into the stands or spectator area; or if it goes through or under a field fence, through or under a scoreboard or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines.

FED seems on the surface to not include this rule.

Fence: is used to describe the outfield fence which is located in fair territory, which if a ball goes over in flight, a deflected ball is in flight, is a HR.

So in the OP, if the ball was deflected over the outfield fence but to the right of the FP, rule it a double please.

If you take the Fed definition verbatim; a line drive deflecting off F3 and out of play in flight would be an HR! It isn't.

I'm sorry, I thought I remembered that just as 5.1.1N filled in the gap left in the rule book about a runner in foul territory being struck by a fair batted ball, there was a situation that filled this gap as well. I don't see one...

BUT, there is no code under which it is intended to call a homerun for a ball that goes over a fence in foul territory. None. Check with Indianapolis if you have to, but there is none.

As I said in another thread, sometimes you just have to understand the game. Then if it continues to bother you, propose to FED that they correct this obvious omission.

Yeah, well, if the rule making mavens at NFHS had always understood the game, they would for example never have instituted calling out baserunners who missed a base without benefit of an appeal.

If rule makers at all levels understand the game, how did we end up with designated hitters?:)

the way i understood it today at one of our umpire meetings we had even if the ball goes over in foul territory it would still be considered a homerun. but i could be wrong but this is coming from a very reliable umpire of the game

So if an OF sees that a fair ball is going over the fence, he can knock that fair ball foul. No problem, ball is live. If he knockss that same fair ball out of play (over the fence in foul territory), the B is limited to 2B?

See #19 in the 2008 BRD. For all codes:

Fair ball deflected over fence fair = home run.

Fair ball deflected over fence foul = two bases.

You might wonder why it is in the BRD if all codes are the same. It's because all codes do not cover, and it's in the interpretations where they come together.

I know it.

Here, long fly down the line.
RHF9 leaps and snares the ball over the fence in fair territory. His momentum carries him (k-bong) into the mild steel foul pole. Causing him to lose the ball, it flies behind the FP, and into the RF seats, clearly into foul territory. Dinger,, it left the field at the (k-bong), behind the FP, in fair territory and over the fence.

Same play LHF9, (k-bong) the ball goes in front of the foul pole and into the stands, double.

Moral of the story, LH's in right and RH's in left.

As for outfielders, best arm in RF, 3rd best in LF. Forget about this play that never happens.

Really? I only own the 2004 edition and in that one CC says NCAA is "same as FED except award 2 bases if fair ball is deflected over the fence into foul ground."

Maybe I need to spring for a new version.

Several additions were made to item 19 for the 2008 edition, from the 2006 edition (there was no 2007 edition). In the 2006 edition the BRD recommended treating as in NCAA, award 2 bases if fair ball is deflected over the fence into foul territory.

Yep, you need a new BRD.

If by "knocks" you mean "intentionally deflects", then NCAA, by rule, awards 2 bases from the time of the deflection. Could turn into a triple or plausibly a home run.

Of course, if you have Garth's understanding of the game, you might choose to believe that the rule folks didn't really mean to have this rule apply in this case, but it is pretty clear. By the way, OBR doesn't have this rule explicitly; but by interpretation, an intentional deflection is treated as a throw, and the same award results if we're talking about an outfielder.

NCAA 8-3o.-(5)
"(5) If any batted or thrown ball intentionally is kicked, thrown, deflected or carried into a dead-ball territory, the runner(s) shall be awarded two bases from the time of the act;"

edited to improve the grammar

so basically it doesn't sound like anyone is for sure on this. because if was an outfielder and the ball was near the foul pole and i didnt think i could catch it but yet swat it into foul territory how is it that the runner would only have a double. something isn't adding up IMO