The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   Runner hit by fair ball in foul terr. (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/42928-runner-hit-fair-ball-foul-terr.html)

dash_riprock Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:23pm
Runner hit by fair ball in foul terr.
 
R3 leading off 3rd entirely in foul ground. F5 playing behind the bag. Batter lines one off the bag, ball bounces back and contacts R3.

I have the batter out, dead ball in FED only. Play on in other codes. Any other views?

_Bruno_ Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:50pm
live ball under pro rules.

_Bruno_ Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:52pm
if R3 was contacted over foul territory ! he would be out if the ball touched him in fair territory.

Matt Fri Mar 21, 2008 04:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bruno_
if R3 was contacted over foul territory ! he would be out if the ball touched him in fair territory.
Why would that make a difference? The ball is fair once it hit the bag.

Edit: I have an out in all codes.

Rich Ives Fri Mar 21, 2008 04:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Why would that make a difference? The ball is fair once it hit the bag.

Edit: I have an out in all codes.
OBR:

7.08 Any runner is out when --
(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory . . .


NCAA

8-5 A runner is out when:
k. The runner, including a runner in contact with a base, is hit while in fair territory by a batted ball . . .


It may be a fair ball, but it isn't fair territory.

btdt Fri Mar 21, 2008 04:52pm
Why would the batter be out?

BigGuy Fri Mar 21, 2008 05:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
R3 leading off 3rd entirely in foul ground. F5 playing behind the bag. Batter lines one off the bag, ball bounces back and contacts R3.

I have the batter out, dead ball in FED only. Play on in other codes. Any other views?
Nobody is out in FED or any other rule set. In this situation I'm assuming the runner was in foul territory when he was hit. Ball is still LIVE and the play goes on.

GarthB Fri Mar 21, 2008 06:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
R3 leading off 3rd entirely in foul ground. F5 playing behind the bag. Batter lines one off the bag, ball bounces back and contacts R3.

I have the batter out, dead ball in FED only. Play on in other codes. Any other views?
Really...an out? How come?

dash_riprock Fri Mar 21, 2008 06:07pm
You would think so, but:

FED 8-4-2-k Any runner is out when he is contacted by a fair batted ball...

garyevins Fri Mar 21, 2008 09:12pm
Common Sense
 
Folks, either I'm missing something here, but how in the heck can you can either runner (R3 or batter out). What you have is a fair batted ball, Yes, it hit 3 base. Therfore the ball is still alive and batter runner can advance. R3 is not out, as he was in fould territory. Ball is still alive..........

waltjp Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:23pm
I ran this by my chapter interpreter (FED Rules). His reply...

The runner is out. 8-4-2k covers it. Even though he was in foul territory, he was hit by a fair ball.

BigGuy Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp
I ran this by my chapter interpreter (FED Rules). His reply...

The runner is out. 8-4-2k covers it. Even though he was in foul territory, he was hit by a fair ball.
Get a better interpreter. It only applies if you get hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory. Below is the rule exactly from the book.

k. is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play (5-1-1f, 6-1-5).

This rule does not apply here because the ball went into foul territory. In order for 8-4-2k to apply the ball must remain in fair territory.

UmpJM Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy
...
This rule does not apply here because the ball went into foul territory. In order for 8-4-2k to apply the ball must remain in fair territory.
BigGuy,

While I certainly hope (pray??) that your assertion is correct, do you have any "cite" that supports it?

When I first read dash's OP, I thought "WTF is he talking about?" Then I went and read the rules. Conspicuously absent from the FED rule is the phrase "fair territory". None of the FED case plays I've read clarifies it definitively one way or the other.

Maybe he IS out under FED rules. Maybe he's not. I'd like to know how they want that called.

JM

bossman72 Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
You would think so, but:

FED 8-4-2-k Any runner is out when he is contacted by a fair batted ball...

I don't have my case book with me, but this exact play is in the case book and it is NOT an out under FED rules. I think it's in the Rule 2 section...

waltjp Sat Mar 22, 2008 01:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72
I don't have my case book with me, but this exact play is in the case book and it is NOT an out under FED rules. I think it's in the Rule 2 section...
As JM just stated, please provide a reference. I thought Dash was wrong too but I can't find anything to dispute that this is an out. I followed up with my interpreter and he tells me it's an out. The guys saying 'out' have provided a rule reference. The 'safe' guys just 'know' it to be true.

BretMan Sat Mar 22, 2008 01:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72
I don't have my case book with me, but this exact play is in the case book and it is NOT an out under FED rules. I think it's in the Rule 2 section...
This exact play is in the J/R manual. Could that be what you are thinking of?

If this play is in the NFHS Case Book, I had no luck finding it! Maybe it's there, but just not in the section you would expect it ot be.

waltjp Sat Mar 22, 2008 08:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy
Get a better interpreter. It only applies if you get hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory. Below is the rule exactly from the book.

k. is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play (5-1-1f, 6-1-5).

This rule does not apply here because the ball went into foul territory. In order for 8-4-2k to apply the ball must remain in fair territory.
BG, maybe it's me...but where exactly in the rule does it say that this doesn't apply if the runner is in foul territory?

bossman72 Sat Mar 22, 2008 04:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp
BG, maybe it's me...but where exactly in the rule does it say that this doesn't apply if the runner is in foul territory?
In my 2007 book: 5.1.1 N

UmpJM Sat Mar 22, 2008 04:47pm
Bossman,

Thanks. Same case play is in the 2008 book. I was only looking in the Rule 8 case plays, so didn't find it.

JM

GarthB Sat Mar 22, 2008 04:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
You would think so, but:
But nothin'. I knew it was there someplace. Thanks Bossman.

dash_riprock Sat Mar 22, 2008 05:15pm
Thanks from me too. I feel much better now.

waltjp Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:01pm
Thanks, Bossman.

cookie Sun Mar 23, 2008 01:02pm
"In my 2007 book: 5.1.1 N"

Sometimes, some of us just read through these posts, following the line of argument, AND then there it is - cut and dry - in black and white...

Thanks Bossman.

dash_riprock Sun Mar 23, 2008 01:38pm
I would rather FED fix the rule than add a Case Book band-aid. This situation was actually raised by our state interpreter, who challenged our association president to find a rule that said the runner was not out. Bossman found it.

Steven Tyler Sun Mar 23, 2008 05:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
I would rather FED fix the rule than add a Case Book band-aid. This situation was actually raised by our state interpreter, who challenged our association president to find a rule that said the runner was not out. Bossman found it.
I can't believe some don't know to look in rule 5 which is all about the ball becoming dead or delayed dead ball situations......:rolleyes:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1