Agree Johnny, but I'm talking about the wind up motion here only.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying, but I think you are reading something into the rule that isn't there.

For the wind-up position, the *entire* pivot foot need not be on or in front of the rubber. For the set position it must be (that's the second caluse of the sentence you quote). See 6.1.1A

yes.

Steve:

The rule clarification was meant to stop pitchers from doing stuff like this and calling it a "wind up":

https://www.eofficials.com/ESO_Repos...tin%20%204.swf

And most pitching coaches follow OBR which now officially permits this windup position. (We ignored it in the past anyway but now it's in the book).

I understand what you're saying, but the only case play that addresses it is 6.1.1 SITUATION A. All other case plays use the phrase, "F1 steps on the pitcher's plate". What I was getting at was, the only time the pitcher may legally contact the front of the rubber is from the set. The few times I've seen a pitcher start a windup with his heel up against the plate, they lose contact with the rubber during their deliveries way before they should.

Yeah, but we could still call that a set position since it definitely looks like a set position.

I think what the rule change was trying to say was that the free foot can be SLIGHTLY in front of the rubber.

I think we went through a similar discussion with you on this subject on another site. You are saying that because it says that in the set position, you need to be on the front edge of the rubber, then it must mean that you cannot be there from the windup. This is not what the rule says. 6-1-3 says you must stand that way in the set position. It doesn't say that you can't also stand that same way in the windup. Just because a rule allows or mandates something for one instance, it doesn't necessarily mean that it prohibits such action in another instance. That is just faulty logic, again. You certainly can work the windup with your pivot foot against the front edge of the rubber. I've seen it happen on all levels.

Around here, we don't give a damn about labels, we care about callin' ball and in the case your mentionin, the starting position is illegal.

Then it's a good thing you ain't around here then, ain't it?;)

Around here, we don't give a damn about labels, we care about callin' ball and in the case your mentionin, the starting position is illegal.

Got that straight, I stopped working bush leagueball eons ago. ;) ;)

Well, you can think that's what they play out here if it helps you sleep at night, but that's a long way from the truth and you know it, Skip. Some of the best ball in the country goes on right here in SoCal, and I've done more than my share of it over the years. It's about time I gave someone else a shot at it.

I agree. With the last sentence.

Steve,

A legal windup position requires the pitcher to face the batter (Shoulders square to HP in NCAA speak). If F1 doesn't do that it's a stretch position.

While many umpires ignored this in the past, think about the unfair advantage in allowing this position with R3. I'm not talking about a minor technical balk as that can easily be OOO.

The NCAA video is a perfect example of a non-legal windup in all rule sets.

Then it's a balk (or illegal pitch) for pitching while not in contact with the rubber. The startign position, though, is legal, and if the pitcher maintains contact (and it's easy to do so), then the pitch is legal.