Part of the job?
 

Interesting story on minor league umpiring.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/sp...tml?ref=sports

Thoughts?

Hmm,
 

JR:

Nice link, thanks.

It is odd that Professional Baseball (at all levels) frowns on having "fans" in an umpire dressing room but allows this intrusion.

As a non-believer I would be offended and ask the person to leave "my office."

And, of course, I would have been released by the PBUC as a "trouble maker."

Regards,

Baseball Chapel
 

The Baseball Chapel comes to our locker room on Sundays also in the Lg I am in. These are always polite men who knock and ask if they can come in and speak to us. They give the 3 of us a handout, say a prayer and usually leave fairly quickly. It tended to be an awkward situation with my crew as we really were not interested in this before a game, but did not want to be rude or seem intolerant. I think that the umpires who want to participate in this service, should be able to do this without basically forcing it on the others. If this were anything but religion, it would not be allowed anywhere near the locker room. My feeling is that we are free to worship as we please in our country. We also have the right to expect that we will not be forced to either.

That's exactly what I was wondering about. Would the PBUA actually go that far?

Pc
 

The one thing that gets a free pass in this country is organized religion. You are exactly right in that if anyone made an issue out of it , they would be branded as a radical and have their career hurt by it. But it might get addressed someday when religion doesnt have so much clout both politically and psycologically

After reading about that incident, Rabbi Ari Sunshine wrote to Commissioner Bud Selig questioning Baseball Chapel’s exclusive standing in baseball as the “sole Christian ministry granted access by Major League Baseball to all of its teams.”

Sunshine, then in Charlotte, N.C., now in Olney, Md., offered a series of ideas to change the system and make it more inclusive, and Selig replied that he shared “the concerns that you have raised, and I will take steps to ensure that much of what you have written is implemented into Major League Baseball.”
Selig, however, has taken no steps since that exchange of letters in September 2005.


Well...that's a big surprise.

I have edited this to add the following..

I don't know which is a bigger surprise .... Bud Selig not doing anything or a rabbi with the last name of Sunshine.

I wonder why the AMLU hasn't represented its membership in this issue.

I was about to post "Why couldn't you just respectfully not participate?"...

I then read the article and it looks a little tougher than I thought it would be just to respectfully stand aside due to the small dressing room and the "reputation" you might be tagged with. So, I can see where you are coming from.

The umpire dressing room at the local minor league stadium has an exterior door that opens directly into the "dressing area" which is roughly 5' by 8' with one wall lined with a bench. The umpires stow their gear and uniforms and change in this area. This is also where they are served post game dinner, two hotdogs and a coke that was placed there in the seventh inning. An interior door at the end of that room leads to a room about 5' by 4' that has a toilet and shower.

You can love, worship, praise and glorify any supreme being or lack therof you want on your own time. Imposing one's beliefs on others when they don't want it is precisely why we came to the New World in the first place.

Get out of my face!

(Can I get an Amen?)

D

becase it wasn't brought up. that was the first i've heard of josh's issues.

Okie dokie.

From your experience, bobby...are these visitations something that happens in all levels of pro ball, or primarily at AAA and the majors?

Did you mean PBUA or PBUC?

all levels, sir. and feel free to not call me bobby if you wish. that cat is no longer bagged.

I am a believer but I would never want someone forced into something they didn't believe or didn't want to hear. I've come back to my faith later in life but I have always resented anyone pushing anything on me in terms of religion. I have a church that I attend but before that (and even now) I would refuse to attend any church where people were sent out to knock on my door. My polite response was " I don't talk about religion at my front door, have a nice day".

Funny story regarding religion and baseball. I was working a tournament in Aiken SC for Dixie baseball in 2004. I was one of 4 out of state umpires. One of the umpires, Jeff, was from VA and I was from NC. We had about 4 games together at the tournament and he asked if he could ride with me to the park so his wife and kids could use his vehicle. No problem. In game 4, I fell asleep and missed an easy force at third (long story, no need to tell it). I came back to the umpires room and looked at Jeff and my other partner Archie and said "Guys, I am sorry...I f***ed up out there and I have no excuse". About 30 minutes later Jeff and I rode back to the hotel. We were talking trying to get our minds off a long day of baseball and I asked him what he did for a living. He said " I work for the school system back home but I am also the minister at a community church in my hometown !!" I apologized for my swearing and told him I knew I wasn't perfect. He never broke stride and said "we all have work to do". That was it, no lecture or sermon.

Lawrence

We've been waiting for this day for thousands of years. What makes you think that day is EVER coming?

Rudeness...
 

"Sure, speak away. Hope you don't mind if I listen to some Ludacris at 120db while you do."

In the minor league park near where I live, there's a reminder that only umpires and club officials are permitted in the umpire's locker room.

There is nothing in the entirety of human experience to suggest there will ever be a "when."

Thank God and amen to that!

Pedro Cerrano: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.
Eddie Harris: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.
Roger Dorn: ****, Harris.
Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

You? A trouble maker???

Never! :p

Hi Garth:

Just wondering since your son is attending school if he mentioned anything about the OP to you

Thanks

Pete Booth

One of our umpires spent time in the minors and just left the game. Here's his account of the Baseball Chapel:

Pete: Matt attended school last year. He spent last season working in the AZL, one of the rookie leagues. He tells me that he has heard of the baseball chapel, but that they were not active in Arizona. He might see them this year.

Ahhhhh the internet. Ain't it great.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We know Josh's name. He was not afraid to put it out there. If this person you quoted is going to disparage Josh, then we should know his name. Otherwise this umpire has no credibility.

He has complete credibility. I've worked with him; I know him. He's regarded as one of the best umpires in the Midwest. If I had even a scintilla of doubt about his honesty or credibility, I would never have even mentioned it in the first place. My sharing it here is good enough.

BTW, I wouldn't call his comments about Josh disparaging unless you're willing to call Josh's comments about the Baseball Chapel equally disparaging.

Was there equal time? How often did the BC folks and the umpires interested in hearing their message go out among the fans so the uninterested umpires could be alone in the room?

I personally would prefer that such individuals not enter the locker room every Sunday. If I choose to go to church, I'd prefer to do so on my own. Having said that, one must also remember that the New York Times is a very anti-religious, ultraleft-wing publication, so such articles will always carry a biased point of view.

You think the NY times is ULTRA left wing? You've lived a shetered life, my friend. I've seen left wing papers that make the Old Gray Lady look downright respectable.

Hardly, Garth. The NYT is one of the most liberal publications around. Sure, there are others even more extreme, but the Times is so far to the Left that Ted Kennedy has to turn left just to see them.

Ump, are you a regular reader of the New York Times?

It's rather difficult to read the thing when it lines my cat's litter box.

But to answer your question, one does not need to read that thing regularly to know it's a left-wing publication.

Whaddaya mean? I find it "fair and balanced"--just like Fox News, only from a different perspective.

Who cares whether the NYT is a "liberal" or "conservative" or "middle of the road" newspaper? The article stands on its own merits.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, of course, is correct. Instead of attacking the messenger why not read the article and judge it on its content. I'm just amazed that people who don't regularly read a publication are willing to label it as one thing or another. This is part of a larger problem in our society - people are intellectually lazy, do no critical thinking. They're completely happy to let someone else define the debate and place labels on things. You're either a conservative or a liberal. Once that's decided you don't have to think about the issues - just look for the label and you'll know if you can agree of disagree with the subject.

It's a shame but a good majority of the country is content to only hear half the story.

I don't watch FOX News much mainly because I find annoying its flashy "alerts" every time someone in Paducah passes gas, but they're a lot more balanced than the NYT is. The former has several left-wing hosts and commentators and will permit both sides to discuss things. The NYT squelches anyone to their right, which is probably why they have not even endorsed a Republican president in something like 60 years.

The stance or ideological bent of a publication is quite important and relevant because it affects the way they report or write their articles and stories. The Times has a history of being virulently anti-religious (again, I'm not that religious myself, unfortunately), so anything they can get their hands on that would disparage religion in any manner, especially Fundamentalist Christians like Baseball Chapel, is fine with them. (FWIW, I am someone who isn't particularly fond of such Fundamentalist Christians, so it's not like I'm trying to be a pro-Bible thumping evangelist here.)

Hogwash.

The evangelical demographic of which they are part may be a majority in South Carolina and few other areas, but it is not a majority nationwide or in a majority of states.

Traditionally, most Americans have found a vast difference between being solicted by United Way and being proselytized by representatives of a religion they do not share. It is not the same thing at all.

I have never been approached by a religious sect at work. If I were, I would inform them politely that I was content with my faith and not interested. If my employer required me to attend a religious gathering, I'd find my voice very quickly, and another job.

What would you think if they added this at the end of the article; "An unknown source was quoted as saying" I know Josh and he is no good. The guy was always complaining about this and that...yada, yada, yada."

That's where credibility comes into play. If you want to print that a man is no good, then back it up with a name source. The fact that you know this person who wrote this may have credibility in a small circle of people, but it does not lend credibility over the world wide web. Myself, I would not write that someone said that a man is no good. That's slander.

Also, I would never use the NYT to line my bird cage. That's what the LA Times is for.

On a side note: I umpired my first game of the season today. It was a 10 inning scrimmage so some of the real game attitude was missing. It was still great to get back out there.

hmmm... anti-religious?

What does that mean? They are against all religions? Or just some of them? Maybe against just yours?

And why would an anti-religious paper go to the trouble of having a religion editor?

Now.... if they had an an ANTI-religion editor, I could see your point...

The Rule on the Locker Room Door says one thing: No one admitted. My partner(s) and I broke this only once (on seperate occasions) to let our fathers in to our locker room (after a game). There were no other exceptions. If you weren't an umpire or working for the umpire (re: ball boy) you weren't coming in. (PBUC supervisors are umpires).

The suggestion that an umpire should have to be preached to (by a leader of a religion he doesn't believe in) or leave the lockerroom (his office) for even 5 minutes before a game is repulsive.

I admit that I have what I call "umpire OCD". On days when I worked the plate I had to do the same exact thing in the lockerroom during the hour before the game. I was a creature of habit. Too suggest I should have to leave my workspace, and stop my mental preparation for 3 hours of grueling work, so someone can come in and preach something that, frankly, I don't agree with or believe in is ridiculous.

I wonder how many umpires would be defending this if it were Muslim "preachers" seeking "just 5 minutes"? Instead of "baseball chapel" it was "baseball mosque"?

Watch it! Any offensive comments directed toward Allah or his religion can result in serious consequences!

Whatever do you mean??

http://www.betwix.com/ripac/images/g...s%202-8-02.jpg

Humor aside (I get it) While there was no slight toward Muslims intended, a slight was intended solely towards those who would fight hard to allow Baseball Chapel to come into umpire's locker rooms...but would likely throw out a "preacher" from a non-Christian religion. (You can substitute "Muslim" in my previous rhetorical question with "Wiccah", "Shinto", "Buddhist"...)

Based solely on my own PERSONAL experiences...I believe there are more than a few who fit that description among the pro ranks.

I'm an equal opportunity type of person: I'd throw them all out (of the lockerroom, that is).

HARI KRISHNA
HARI HARI
HARI KRISHNA

It's "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare."

Just for your edification.;)

Sounds like you've been to one to many airports:D

Down the heart of the dish with that coment, walt. Let's follow with another.

People who claim they don't like religions or religious viewpoints "forced" on them, when various viewpoints are crammed down their eyes every day by TV, radio and all forms of media, curious? Why so sensitive about religion?

Because religious discussions hit people right in their hearts, it talks to the reality of our mortality, it gut checks the most important of concerns.

Are we here, ultimately, for nothing and are nothing?

Imagine living a life with an assured dead end and the clock ticking down with equal assuredness, to your demise with nothing to hope for except..

Nothing. :(

The religious proselytizers (not invariably, but nearly so, and not uniquely, but nearly so) couch their positions in a false "either/or" dichotomy. I have no faith in the existence of any supreme being, but I don't believe "we're here, ultimately, for nothing and are nothing" either. I don't have any inclination, and see no compelling reason, to justify or explain what I DO believe to a bunch of strangers.

When I tell sellers of cookies, or magazines, or home improvements, or politics, or kitchenware my loyalties lie elsewhere, they NEVER ask for justification. Purveyors of religion ALWAYS do. That's why so sensitive about religion. :)

If the umpires in MiLB aren't relieved of this burden, however slight it may be seen by others, I feel bad for them.

So many people claim to be Christians. Being a Christian is more, and I mean much more, than saying it. It is living it. It doesn't matter what faith you care to worship or if you choose not to worship at all. That's the bottom line.

Sorry Steve, I messed up the words Hare Krishna from the rock musical "Hair" for you.

Way to Google though. I have about 1,000 songs of sheet music with lyrics I've acquired over the years. This isn't one from my memory.........;)

Would you prefer the lyrics from George Harrison's, "My Sweet Lord"? I probably have that one somewhere.

__________________________________________________ ____

Hare Krishna from the rock musical, Hair

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rame
Rama Rama Hare Hare

Love love
Love love
Drop out
Drop out
Be in
Be in

Take trips get high
Laugh joke and good bye
Beat drum and old tin pot
I'm high on you know what
Marijuana marijuana
Juana juana mari mari
High high high high
Way way up here
Ionosphere

Beads, flowers, freedom, happiness
Beads, flowers, freedom, happiness

You can turn off a TV or a radio, or stop reading a newspaper column. That's a personal choice. You don't have someone in your living room reading that material to you.

Apples and oranges. It's completely different than someone coming into your work environment.

There are a lot of people at work I wish could be switched off or at least "muted". One day...