Most annoying thing heard
 

What are some of things I can expect fans say to annoy umpires during critical moments of a tight game?
Love those surprises, that lead to a good laugh ...

What fans?

"Hey ump, I found your cell phone. I know it's yours because it has three missed calls on it."

Oh, you said "annoying"....sorry...

Most annoying thing - "Get in position".

JJ

anything and everything about 'rising' fastballs

My apologies
 

You will see that I previously deleted recent content in this "regards" and can verify this claim in "25 words or less."'

Do you dare to dispute Daniel Bernoulli?

Noooooooooo!
 

Don't do it Dash....

Aw crap, it's probably too late!

D

I promise I won't do it. I suspect this subject has previously been debated ad nauseum. Nevertheless, I would just like to read the debate out of interest. Can you tell me where I can find it? Thanks.

Mythbusters busted the 'Rising Fastball' sometime last year...

"Tie goes to the runner...you otta know that one by now blue!"

"Don't talk to my catcher"

"Where was THAT pitch?"

"I wasn't talking to YOU"

That's a good one too.

anything said by pony league coaches (13-14 yo) since this is normally the first year for balks, leadoffs, pickoffs, and being allowed to run on dropped third strike

Any of the following:

Myths about Baseball and Softball:

1. The hands are considered part of the bat.
2. The batter-runner must turn to his right after over-running first base.
3. If the batter breaks his wrists when swinging, it’s a strike.
4. If a batted ball hits the plate first, it’s a foul ball. The plate is in fair territory.
5. The batter cannot be called out for interference if he is in the batter’s box.
6. The ball is dead on a foul tip.
7. The batter may not switch batter’s boxes after two strikes.
8. The batter who batted out of order is the person declared out.
9. The batter may not overrun first base when he gets a walk.
10. It is an automatic strike to the batter if he squares to bunt and does not pull the bat back when the pitch crosses the plate.
11. The batter is out if a bunted ball hits the ground and bounces back and hits the bat while the batter is holding the bat.
12. The batter is out if his foot touches the plate.
13. The batter-runner is always out if he runs outside the running lane after a bunted ball. 14. A runner is out if he slaps hands or high-fives other players, after a home run is hit over the fence.
15. The runner gets the base he’s going to, plus one on a ball thrown out-of-play.
16. Anytime a coach touches a runner, the runner is out.
17. Runners may never run the bases in reverse order.
18. The runner must always slide when the play is close.
19. The runner is always safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. Rules
20. A runner is out if he runs out of the baseline to avoid a fielder who is fielding a batted ball.
21. Runners may not advance when an in field fly is called.
22. No run can score when a runner is called out for the third out for not tagging up.
23. A pitch that bounces to the plate cannot be hit.
24. The batter does not get first base if hit by a pitch after it bounces.
25. If a fielder holds a fly ball for 2 seconds it’s a catch.
26. You must tag the base with your foot on a force out or appeal.
27. The ball is always immediately dead on an illegal pitch or catcher’s interference.
28. If a player’s feet are in fair territory when the ball is touched, it is a fair ball.
29. The ball must always be returned to the pitcher before an appeal can be made.
30. With no runners on base, it is a ball if the pitcher starts his windup and then stops.
31. If a fielder catches a fly ball and then falls over the fence, it is a homerun.
32. The ball is dead anytime the ball hits an umpire.
33. The home plate umpire can overrule the other umpires at anytime.
34. The batter is out for throwing the bat. (no such rule in the book)

Saw these on another forum.
http://www.swpll.org/library/documen...Game_Myths.pdf

The most annoying thing to hear ? A former member of our association, who's
plate meeting consisted of " Now coaches, this is how I do things...", followed
closely by "You won't do this, you can't do that...." blah, blah blah.

How can you make that call?

How can you make that call?
 

How can you make that call?!?

I just turn the hearing aids off. Smooth quiet games always :D

Phrase not allowed on the field
 

I don't allow anyone on the field to use the phrase "Call it both ways, Blue!"

That phrase strongly implies that I am favoring the other team, and fundamentally, it questions my integrity. When I hear anyone on the bench say that, I give the coach a warning, and let him know that a bench restriction and/or ejections will follow if I hear it again.

Boy are you strict!

Daniel Bearnoulli? Is he taking Froemming's place?

"That's not your pitch, Johnny"

AD as you pull in the parking lot, "Your partner just called and he's stuck at work."

Actual utterance of a young partner of mine who was itching to get behind the plate:

"I forgot to bring my base hat and my plate hat is too tight to wear on the bases."

Ummm...sure, son, you can have the plate. :confused:

If his plate hat is too tight to wear on the bases, wouldn't this same hat be too tight while doing the plate? Perhaps there's some head shrinking going on when he's behind the mask.:eek:

Of course I am! How loossly do you let them question YOUR integrity?

I don't take the comment literally, I just ignore it. They're just rats, trying to get a call. I'll sometimes here this when I ring up one at the knees. I just hope the next pitch is in the same place so I can ring it up again.

Okay...then take the comment figuratively and tell me what the coach is saying.

"Where was that", "not your pitch", etc are simple disagreements with your judgment. But "Call it both ways" implies strongly that you are favoring one team over the other, or put otherwise, cheating.

I'll tolerate a coach saying that once, but he won't be around to say it three times.

Ok Garth, I'm curious to see how you'd play this out. Game management is something I need to get better at, particularly with coaches. So here's the sitch A...

You're in A, close play at first, you have him safe. You start to pivot into B as the ball is being returned to F1 when head rat yells from his cage "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

What do you say back, it its the 2nd time he's said it to you?

Sitch B...

You're PU. Strike 3 called, 3rd out. As 3rd base coach (who is also HC) walks by to return to dugout, he says "you gotta give our pitcher that too." What is your reply? Note: He never stops walking and keeps on to the dugout.

Sitch C...

Same as B, but its an overly obnoxious assistant.

Others with experience other than Garth, please chime in with your responses.

Sitch A I make eye contact and I'll say, "Don't go there" or "That's enough".
If I hear it a second time he's done for the game.

Stich B I will say "If he throws it there, he'll get it" to the head cheese.

Sitch C I will either ignore the assistant or dump him. Since you indicated he was "obnoxious", he's evidently already done or said something to make that fact known, so odds are better than 50-50 that he'll be done.

I know probably 80% of the coaches I work for, and they know what they can say to me with or without reprocussions. The other 20% can be generalized into the Sitches outlined above.

JJ

A. Like I said, he'll get to say it once, but never three times. After the first time he'll be told "Don''t question my ethics." If it starts to leave his lips again, he'll be gone.

B. If he continues walking away, I will not follow him, but I will suggest loudly enough for him that both pitchers will get what they throw.

C. An assistant? If it's his first crack, I'll ignore him. If he's a repeat offender, he's done.

"Safe -- he beat the throw. He beat the throw -- safe. How's that?"

Garth - ya gotta switch to decaf buddy!

If I really thought he was seriously questioning my integrity or accusing me of being intentionally dishonest ("cheating" as you put it) of course I would dump him on the spot. It depends on a lot of things including tone, volume, frequency, etc.

All coaches think the other guy is getting the better calls. It's a trait inherent to rats. I don't see much difference between a whiny "call it both ways" and a whiny "not yours Timmy." You characterize the latter as a simple disagreement with your judgment, but it could just as easily be construed as a statement that you are incompetent.

If it's nothing more than the occasional whine, I'm not going to let it get under my skin. I like to use the response that JJ gave to Sitch B. If it escalates or gets personal, then I'll deal with it differently. A redass ump looks just as unprofessional as an a-hole coach.

Sitch A

Cage my need to be cleaned:

Coach: "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

Umpire: What I'm hearing you say coach is that I'm cheating by not calling them both ways.

Coach: No Blue, that's not what I'm saying.

Umpire: Good, for now I don't need to take any further action. Knock off the chirping.

Sitch B

It's all about the tone. If he says it just load enough for me to hear and he's walking away I'll ignore him.

Sitch C

Same response as situation B unless the overly obnoxious assistant begins putting on a show. If it's the show, I lower the curtain quickly.

A - there are only two ways, SAFE or OUT, are you suggesting I call it both ways? When he asks the same time I say "what part of this did you miss the first time?"

B - "What does "too" mean hoss?

C - what's an overly obnoxious assistant doing in the game?

Seriously though:

A - ignore
B - ignore
C - toss the overly obnoxious assistant earlier in the game when it is evident he is an overly obnoxious assistant and C don't happen...

The difference is, and you point it out nicely, is that "not your's Timmy" can be interperted a number of ways, whereas, "call it both ways" clearly states that you are not calling it "both ways", thus, cheating.

Gone.

It has nothing to do with caffeine. It has nothing to do with being a red-***. It has everything to do with where one draws the line. I have never allowed a coach to imply that I cheat in anyway. Perhaps, partly because of where I draw the line and how well that is known, it doesn't come up except for the occasional new comer or visitor who has yet to learn.

You can choose to accept that kind of treatment, and thus show your coaches it is acceptable behaviour.

I don't. Never have. Never will.

Dash
 

You can accept anything you want . . .

"Call it both ways" in my games equals ejection.

Of course I am limited in my experience:

Only 39 years and about 4,000 games.

Your mileage may differ.

Regards,

Tim
 

Tim, around these parts, if you ejected everyone who said "call it both ways," you surely wouldn't have 4,000 games.

Yes it does.

So ejecting someone, the second time he accuses you of cheating, after being warned the first time, is being a red a$$?

Wow.

You hear it that much because no one has taken care of business. Take care of it, and you won't hear it.

Amen.

If I hear that phrase ("call it both ways") in a Scholastic game, I approach the Head Coach and inform him that I will not tolerate accusations of cheating again - period! There is no discussion about it and that is his warning (FED games mostly). If it was an assistant that said it, he's gone without a warning.

During non-Scholastic games in the Summer & Fall (played under OBR), use of the phrase is an immediate ejection. Manager or assistant makes no difference, the guy is gone.

By the way, it doesn't matter if I hear it directed to my partner or I, the result will be the same. I will give my partner a moment to deal with it but if he doesn't (and many of them have not), I will. I just don't allow this kind of crap in my games and I don't allow anyone to question the integrity of my crew!

Time for medication!! :eek:

Here's one that really happened and it fits both the "annoying things heard" and "call it both ways" discussion.

Top of the first inning. Batter goes down looking at a pitch for the third out.

Passing me on his way back to the dugout, his coach says, "You gotta call that both ways!".

:confused:

I dressed him down pretty good. Me: "Call it both ways? Coach, why don't you wait until your pitcher throws a pitch before you make up your mind whether or not I'm calling "both ways"! You don't have any idea how I'm going to call it because he hasn't thrown a pitch yet! If he throws the same pitch, he'll get the same call! You're arguing about something that hasn't even happened! Now knock it off and get back in your dugout!".

Didn't hear another peep from him the whole game, but that comment, in that situation, has to rank up there as one of the all-time dumbest.

I think you handled it well Bret. It demonstrates that "call it both ways" isn't necessarily a knock on your integrity (in this case, it couldn't be), and yes, it is way up there on the stupid scale.

To Garth, Tim & Ozzy, from my earlier response on this thread:

So we really don't disagree at all on what happens if a coach questions our integrity (#6 on Jim Evans' list of automatic ejections).

Where we differ is our individual interpretation of the words. Sometimes, I see it as merely whining about a pitch. If both pitchers are living on the edge and throwing 10 borderline pitches every inning, it's entirely possible that the coach honestly believes the other guy got a strike on the same pitch I balled for his guy. Maybe once in a while he is right. And if he mutters "same way blue," I'll take that as his way of telling me to bear down, rather than an accusation that I am intentionally trying to screw his team. If, depending on how the words were conveyed, I believe otherwise, see ya, with no warning.

If you recall, after I said I would toss the coach for attacking my integrity a SECOND time AFTER a warning for the first time, you suggested I was a redass.

Now, you say we are in agreement? Nice back pedal.

However you got here, welcome to reality.

Huh? What back pedal? I never said you weren't a redass, only that we are in agreement that a coach who questions our integrity gets dumped (in your case, after a warning). Please re-read my posts. Our difference arises from what we interpret as an attack on our integrity, not how we deal with it.

Uh-huh.

dash
 

Let me put this in perspective:

IF (and I have heard it) a coach says: "Call it both ways!" The first time I hear it I take off my mask agressively and stride purposefully towards the offender.

Loudly I say: "Are you quesioning my integrity . . . are you?" As I keep walking towards him mask in hand.

No coach has EVER had the guts to say: "Yes, I am" cause they now know they are on a short lease.

If I heard anything of the same nature I would dump people. I don't CARE what you (or the coach) thinks the statement means . . . it is well defined too me.

And dash, I have worked in Seattle, San Francisco and Portland and the basic rule in those areas has always been "dump the guy."

Regards,

Well, you must be a reda$$, too. :D

(Maybe we should create a secret handshake.)

Having worked in New York, California and Washington, my experience is similar to your, Tee. The funny thing, those who heard that the most were the ones who did nothing about it. Hmmmmm.

Reminds me of a story that I still get teased about. My second year of umpiring, assigned to the bases of my first championship game (a 10 yo tournament). Top of the first inning, I make a call at 1B, coach comes out of the 1B dugout, asks me a question about the call, to which I reply "Are you questioning my judgment?"

I wouldn't call it guts, be he didn't show great intelligence as he replied "Yes, I am." I dumped him.

Game got rained out in the 3rd. After the game the coaches from both teams met with the tournament director, scheduled the game to be replayed from the beginning the next day. Since they started over from the beginning, the tournament director told the coach he wasn't ejected for the replay. Saw the coach in the parking lot, he said "I'll never answer that question that way again" and we both laughed.

My assigner heard my story, explained how I "baited" him, and I wasn't assigned to the replay. That story (and several others) still brings a big smile to my face whenever I think of them. Rule 1.01 - "Baseball is a game......."

Walt

Be careful about how this is stated. It can be interpreted two ways - one is a myth and the other isn't.

Last I saw in FED rules, if a batter-runner reaches first on a BB and overruns the base he can be legally tagged out. He is only entitled to the base.

That said, a BB is still a live ball and a runner can run past first base and try for second in an attempt to draw a throw.;)

No big deal as long as whoever reads it interprets it the same way as the person who wrote it.

Early in '07 I had a player on a Quebec Men's team refer to me as a "****ing Anglo" in french which had to be by far the most annoying thing said to me by far.

In the 3 other stiches.

A- He's done....Would've been warned after the first one.

B- If he said it so only I heard it, I would respond "Have him find it and he will get it." If it is said so that everyone can hear it definite warning. If he is grandstanding while doing it he's done.

C- If only I hear it, I would probably laugh and say "maybe that is why you aren't a head coach" very quietly. If it is loud usually, if the head coach doesn't have the same mindset the head coach will deal with it no questions asked. If he doesn't he is done.

Remembering another one...

Last summer, adult men's league (which, by the way usually goes pretty smoothly around here. The league president reads them the riot act before before the season and they are generally well behaved).

Tying run on third. Batter hits a pop foul near the third base dugout. F5 heads over, balances himself against the fence, keeping both feet in play, leans through an opening in the fence, makes the catch, then tumbles into dead ball area.

Plate umpire kills it, calls the out and awards R3 home.

Defensive coach erupts, team erupts, various knuckleheads charge my partner. Coach claims that "the umpire in our last game didn't call it like that" (a dumb statement in itself, but not the one I'm getting at). I get everybody away from my partner in quick fashion and we get the game moving along again.

I trot back out to "C" (there was another runner) and the shorstop is still looking agitated. He comments to me, "Man, that is the stupidest F***ing rule I've ever heard!".

Me: "Yeah, it's such a stupid rule that it's only been in the rule books since about 1903".

Be careful. While you cannot overrun first (no try for 2B) on a walk in FED, you can in OBR and NCAA.

I think this is a mistake. Sometimes, an umpire's judgment is incorrect: we make mistakes. Coaches often question judgment, for example by saying that a call is terrible. OK, maybe I made a terrible call.

But questioning the official's integrity is another matter. The expression "call it both ways" implies that the official is NOT calling it both ways, which implies favoritism and cheating. That's as much as saying that the official is terrible, not just the call. This is the comment that warrants ejection.

Note that I'm not condoning arguing over "judgment calls" such as safe/out, fair/foul, ball/strike. We all know that coaches cannot legally come out to argue judgment calls. My point is that if a coach complained about one of your judgment calls, and then you asked whether he was questioning your judgment, then the answer should be "yes," (or maybe "in this case, yes") and that this answer does not warrant an ejection.

So what's wrong with that statement? :rolleyes: Tie does go to the runner. :p See FED 8.4.1f. By definition the fielder must make the play on the runner/batter-runner BEFORE they reach the respective base. A tie implies the same time. Of course there are those who say a tie isn't possible. They are two mutually exclusive events and can occur at the same time.

f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base:

Rich,

Thanks for the clarification.

Rich,

Are you saying that, in Fed, if the catcher does not like the ball four call and is discussing it with the PU, the batter/runner cannot try for 2nd?

No. I was commenting on the "overrun" like on a ground ball, with the runner making no attempt to go to 2B. In FED if the runner overruns on a BB he is in jeopardy of being put out. In OBR and NCAA he is not.

An intentional base on balls is a dead ball in FED. The walk is requested by the coach, time is called and the batter is sent to 1st. When ball four is pitched the ball remains live.

The problem is that you didn't read 8.4.2


Art. 2... Any runner is out when he:

i. does not retouch his base before a fielder tags him out or holds the ball while touching such base after any situation (8-2-1, 2-3 and 4). Umpire may also call him out at end of playing action upon proper and successful appeal. Also, it is not necessary for runner to retouch his base after a foul tip (2-16-2); or

j. fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such base, after runner has been forced from the base he occupied because the batter became a runner (with ball in play) when other runners were on first base, or on first and second, or on first, second and third. There shall be no accidental appeals on a force play.

Or how about 8.2.8: A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it before he is out (tie goes to the fielder).

"call it both ways"
 

After giving this matter considerable thought, prompted by many of the posted responses, I will now deal differently with these words. Thanks for the input.

What's wrong with a belt high hook?

There are not ties, the runner is either safe or the runner is out. When the crowd "sees" a tie...many, many, times it's an out, because it's not really a tie. I think you might just be trying to stir the pot though...so I'm only partially biting.

I'm pretty sure the height of the pitch at the point it crosses the plate as you describe it is a strike in many, many leagues...but I'm not really into discussing balls and strikes through words...video clips maybe...but probably not that either.

If it croseed the plate belt high, nothing. However, if the catcher caught it belt high, it was very likely up.

What if it was a rising curveball?:confused:

TxUmp: I don't allow anyone on the field to use the phrase "Call it both ways, Blue!"

Amen. Actually had a coach send his captain out at half-time of a basketball game and say words that effect. I lit the coach up. It was bad enough for the coach to say it, but to have a high school kid do it on his behalf is way out of line. :mad:

Steball is a 3rd year mistake? :confused:

I think that would make most of us with well above 50 years of experience each... :eek:

Then Hell would have frozen over................


Tim.

Belt high hooks often wind up deposited in the outfield bleachers, for one thing.

I've always wondered why, when I call that high zone pitch a strike, the offensive teams takes offense (pun intended), because my next thought is, "I wonder what a Mark McGuire or a Sammy Sosa would have done with that pitch?"

JJ

Pre steroid/HGH, Sammy would've flown out to shallow left field. McGwire...probably into the seats.

That's the best point though...pitchers miss when that's the location of a curveball...lucky, if it stays in the park.