THE RUNNER: 7.05 (b)

[wpiced]

I have been wrestling with the second half of 7.05 (b) for some time now. So, what does it mean? "Each batter may,
... advance one base when:"

(b)... or when the batter hits a fair ball that touches another runner or the umpire before such ball has been touched by, or has passed a fielder, IF THE RUNNER IS FORCED TO ADVANCE: What?

First, I assume that "a fielder" can also be the pitcher in this case. Second, can anyone describe a play where the runner is FORCED TO ADVANCE and gets hit by a fair ball that hasn't passed a fielder?

I can only think of a bases loaded situation where R3 is trotting (forced) home and stumbless over a slow roller that is along the third base line.

Somehow, I think I am missing the point. Who knows the answer?

[Jim Porter]

It's 7.04(b)

7.04 Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when

(b) The batter's advance without liability to be put out forces the runner to vacate his base, or when the batter hits a fair ball that touches another runner or the umpire before such ball has been touched by, or has passed a fielder, if the runner is forced to advance; A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score. Play. Two out, bases full, batter walks but runner from second is overzealous and runs past third base toward home and is tagged out on a throw by the catcher. Even though two are out, the run would score on the theory that the run was forced home by the base on balls and that all the runners needed to do was proceed and touch the next base.

All it's saying is that if the batter gets a free base, all the forced runners get a free base, too. Then it goes on to explain that, if forced by the BR's free base, the run still counts. Even if an out occurs before the runner has reached home plate.

The pitcher is not included for, "passed," but the pitcher is included if the batted ball deflects off of him.

- R1, R2
- 1 Out
- B3 smashes a hot liner right at R2 and it hits him in the leg
- Time is called, R2 is out
- The BR advances without liability to first base, forcing R1 to second base

Am I missing something??

[wpiced]

Jim, thank you for your reply. Even with my question being screwed up, you were able to clarify the rule, that is, 7.04 (b). Many of these rules read like they were written in the late 1800s. It is nice to know that there are umpires out there like you with clarity,understanding, and the willingness to share it.

Best regards,
Marty

[Rog]

If you keep that up, his head will wind up as big as his feet ;- )

But, I will second the fact that he is more than willing to "share"; and, help out if someone is trying to learn this vocation called umpiring.

Check out his web site as well.....

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by wpiced
Many of these rules read like they were written in the late 1800s.

Errr, Marty, many of them were written in the 1800's!

Anyhow, thanks for the compliments. Don't worry, nothing could even approach the size of my feet. *grin*

If you have any other questions, post away!

[sandinfla]

Just a little extra needs to be added to how you call that play. Once the runner is hit & you feel that no defensive player had a play on the ball, that ball is dead, no one may advance. No brainer with 1 or 2 runners, but with bases loaded it gets slightly tricky. The runner that got hit is out, ball dead, the batter gets 1st base, no one advances to score. At this point, it doesn't matter who got hit.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by wpiced:

I have been wrestling with the second half of 7.05 (b) for some time now. So, what does it mean? "Each batter may,
... advance one base when:"

(b)... or when the batter hits a fair ball that touches another runner or the umpire before such ball has been touched by, or has passed a fielder, IF THE RUNNER IS FORCED TO ADVANCE: What?

First, I assume that "a fielder" can also be the pitcher in this case. Second, can anyone describe a play where the runner is FORCED TO ADVANCE and gets hit by a fair ball that hasn't passed a fielder?

I can only think of a bases loaded situation where R3 is trotting (forced) home and stumbless over a slow roller that is along the third base line.

Somehow, I think I am missing the point. Who knows the answer?

First, you mention 7.05(b), but I suspect you meant to state 7.04(b).

Your question actually addresses two rules: 7.04(b) and 7.08(f).

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Regarding 7.04(b), the rule merely states if an award is made to a following runner forcing another runner to advance, the the preceding runners forced to advance are also awarded a base.

What is important to note here, as Jim did, is that if any runner advances beyond the base he is entitled to due to his award and is put out by the defense for the third out, then any runner forced to score will be considered to have scored even if such 3rd out occurs before R3 actually touches home. However, note that this is due to the defense putting out the runner.

With two outs and a runner is forced score, if the 3rd out is due to the offense violating other rules, such as running the bases in reverse order or abandoning the basepaths before touching their next base of advance, then the runner is out the moment the umpire declares him out. If R3 has not touched home when such runner is declared out by the umpire, then R3's run does not score---even if he was forced to score.

---

Don't make too many assumptions, here. Although Jim didn't specifically address this portion of your question, the pitcher for this rule IS NOT considered an fielder. Actual application correlates closely with rule 5.09(f) which addresses a batted ball striking an umpire. Rule 5.09(f) states:

5.09(f) The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when a fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher. [my emphasis]

Rule 7.08(f) states:

Any runner is out when he is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or
passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is
not out, although the batter is out.

Although you may note that 7.08(f) does not exclude the pitcher as an infielder, in actuality that is how the rule is applied. A ball passing a pitcher and striking a runner is not considered to have passed an infielder. If the pitcher touches and deflects such batted ball, then he IS considered an infielder.

The Fed has addressed this ambiguity in wording with their rule 6-1-5 which states a pitcher is not considered an infielder if a batted ball passes him and strikes an umpire or a runner.

Just my opinion,

Freix