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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitump56
Nice positioning.

NOT.

Lemme see, I got R barreling down the 3B dugout side of the baseline grass, and F2 with his foot past the top of the plate. So, naturally,I swaddle over from seeing both as I head toward RF, getting perfectlly blocked by F2 and his foot.

Knowing I have screwed the pooch, I take the only "out" I have left which is the "oh he's so safe I can make this casual palms down sign whilst closing in a yard or so just in case I am out of camera range."

Good thing Barrett didn't jump up like he knew what was going on. Timmy fooled 'em all.
Look at the play again. The PU is TBLX and not right field. He had a great look at the play. Actually he had a better look than the camera angles. Timing was great (could have sold it better) if Barret holds the ball he's out. If not he's safe.

Actually the "safe play" is to call him out. Easy to argue he never got the plate.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 03:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
Actually the "safe play" is to call him out. Easy to argue he never got the plate.

Hmmm...
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 03:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
...Timing was great (could have sold it better)...
If McClelland knew (or judged) Holliday touched the plate, why bother selling the safe call? The ball is rolling around on the ground for all to see - the safe call becomes the obvious call. Selling something that obvious would be counterproductive. McClelland watches everything before making a call - whether it's a ball/strike or an out/safe. That's one reason I enjoy watching him work.
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Last edited by Delaware Blue; Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 05:31pm.
  #49 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 04:34pm
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Hey all,

The way I interpreted the mechanic was that Tim McClellan saw no tag, and made no call because of it. When Barrett went to get the ball to tag the runner, PU realized a call was necessary before the appeal, and he made the safe call.

Either that, or like was said before, he just has a SLOW mechanic.

LomUmp
  #50 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 05:10pm
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McClelland Gives Interview

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...and-call_N.htm
  #51 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 05:27pm
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson
im sure mr don Denkinger would agree witcha

Wonder what Todd Worrell would say.
  #52 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 06:03pm
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That what I see

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Here's what I see. From the angle behind home plate, you can see F2 block the runner's hand off the plate. But R3's hand pushes the foot back along 3BLX. If R3 touched the plate, that's how he did it.

I do not see a touch, but the hand pushes the blocking foot back enough to expose the plate to make a touch possible.

I agree, Barrett's foot is pushed by the runner's hand. It is very possible that while the foot was being pushed the hand slid across the plate.
  #53 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 06:39pm
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The debate is over.

I just checked the MLB site. The box score indicates Holliday was safe.

The Rockies won the game.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 06:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
I just checked the MLB site. The box score indicates Holliday was safe.

The Rockies won the game.

Great point
  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 07:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
Look at the play again. The PU is TBLX and not right field. He had a great look at the play. Actually he had a better look than the camera angles. Timing was great (could have sold it better) if Barret holds the ball he's out. If not he's safe.

Actually the "safe play" is to call him out. Easy to argue he never got the plate.
I must have been unclear, we agree.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 08:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
No: on plays at the plate, the umpire makes no signal until the runner is safe (touches the plate) or out. This is not an appeal play.
That is simply not true.

The umpire will give a non verbal safe signal if the runner slides and avoids the tag and misses the plate. The catcher can then make a live ball appeal by tagging the runner and if he does so before the runner returns to touch the plate the umpire will call and signal the runner OUT!
  #57 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 08:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
That is simply not true.

The umpire will give a non verbal safe signal if the runner slides and avoids the tag and misses the plate. The catcher can then make a live ball appeal by tagging the runner and if he does so before the runner returns to touch the plate the umpire will call and signal the runner OUT!
WRONG! This has been discussed many times. If the runner misses the plate and no tag is applied there is no call because nothing has happened yet.
  #58 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 08:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaff
WRONG! This has been discussed many times. If the runner misses the plate and no tag is applied there is no call because nothing has happened yet.

Of course something has happened.

The tag was missed.
  #59 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 08:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
That is simply not true.

The umpire will give a non verbal safe signal if the runner slides and avoids the tag and misses the plate. The catcher can then make a live ball appeal by tagging the runner and if he does so before the runner returns to touch the plate the umpire will call and signal the runner OUT!
Unless proschools have changed their teachings in the past three years, you are confusing a missed base at first with the missed plate at home.

At first, safe signal. At home, no signal.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2007, 08:51pm
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Since I started this thread by implying that McClelland missed the play I feel compelled to:

Admit I was wrong since there is no evidence to prove McClelland wrong;
Observe that McClelland was in proper position to make the call and made the call when he saw the ball and been dropped and before the catcher could make a live ball appeal;
Agree with McClelland that baseball instant replay might be a good idea on did balls leave or not leave the field of play and that is all.
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