Unejected a Coach
 

I had this situation happen to me back in August when I was doing an allstar tournament game. Tag play at second base to end the inning, the runner was clearly out. Third base coach yells from across the diamond "you're killing us blue!". I say back "coach don't go there". He responds with "don't go there? I'm going to go there, with both of you blues, all game". At that point I should have dumped him but didn't. I was in right field kicking myself for not taking action, when he says from the dugout "56 for 29 blue".

Now this was a bit of an emotional reaction on my part, because I hadn't heard the first part of what was said, so I said "coach you're gone". He says "What do you mean? I said 56 for 29 blue".

At this point I realize my mistake, and go to the dugout and tell him he's still in the game. I think there is a good moral to this story that is important for us to consider. Everyone makes mistakes. It takes a man to admit to his mistakes and fix them. Obviously whether someone should be ejected or not is a judgement call, and a judgement call can be reversed. 9.02 c: If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision.

thats a mistake that could have been avoided pretty easily.
if i ever did this, i probably wouldnt post about it on the internet...but then again i'm not a fake poster

I figured it out. He's Lance's b@st@rd child.

Getting into verbal warfare with a Coach across the diamond is a losing proposition to begin with. He is playing to the public ear. you're looking like a doofus who is giving up his authority. If you yelled at a teacher or any other authoraty figure from 50 meters, would they yell back or come and see you personally? Why do you see yourself as any less of an authority figure?


The moral is keep your head on your shoulders, your emotions in your pocket an have a clear and concise approach to Coaches who abuse you and the game.

http://forum.officiating.com/showpos...2&postcount=22

"Obviously whether someone should be ejected or not is a judgement call, and a judgement call can be reversed. 9.02 c: [I]If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision."

You are incorrect if you are indicating a judgement call can be appealed.
9.02(a)Any umpires decision which includes judgment ******** is final

You are misinterpeting 9.02(b)
If there is a reasonable doubt that any umpires decision is in conflict with the rulesthe manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such an appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision.
9.02c)
If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for imformation before making a final decision.

You have to use things in the correct order. You can not disregard 9.02(a) so you can interpet 9.02(c) to fit your needs

I know you're going to say I'm just piling on ... but surely this kind of fictional hair-trigger response and the fictional cross-field shouting you participated in is an example of the reasons your fictional supervisor isn't promoting you to work fictional higher-level games.

For those who really have a clue:

You never eject someone unless you are sure that this is either the proper penalty or the last straw because once you eject, you never, ever bring them back --- for any reason!

And that is not open to interpretation - that is the way we operate!

This is why some people umpire and others wish that they could!

In a fall league last week, I had both teams begging me to "uneject" a player!

One team was playing short-handed, with only eight players (FED rules). We were only in the third inning. A player for the short-handed team went down on a called third strike.

He took a few steps from the plate, let loose with a string of profanities, then brought his bat up overhead and heaved it about 30 feet in the general direction of his own dugout.

I didn't even hesitate on that one- "Number 11, you're ejected!".

Since they dropped down to seven players, the game became an automatic forfeit. His coaches pleaded for me to change my mind. The other team's coaches asked if I would reconsider. They wanted to play!

I held my ground, telling them, "If you still want to play, be my guest. You can play another ten innings if you want. But you won't be doing it with these two umpires present".

And with that one, well deserved "heave-ho", I now have the reputation as the hard-a$$ umpire that doesn't "care about the kids"!

That's a good reputation to have.

If anyone asks, just tell them you care enough about the kids to let them know actions have consequences.

I never said anyone is piling on, and like fitump56 said it is a bad idea to be yelling across the field. The only problem is that to avoid this, I've got to follow the coach for 50 metres to get to him, and this just doesn't look good. Maybe I should just toss him after he starts yelling across the diamond? What do you guys think? This whole yelling across the diamond thing is starting to piss me off, maybe it's time to just eject immediatly.

Ozzy, I do not disagree whatsoever, but what about this situation : In a Fed
game, young umpire objected to a coach telling him "You blew that call" twice, face-to-face, not across the field. Said rookie dumps coach. He was the only representative of the school at the facility. His partner, a veteran,
convinced the rookie to change the ejection to a dugout restriction. That way, the game did not have to be forfeited, as per state rule. From all reports, that compromise made all parties happy.

If a coach is yelling from across the diamond you have two choices:

<ol> 1. If what he is yelling at you is something you would eject him for saying to you when he is close by, then you give him the old heave-ho (that means eject him in case you didn't know) from right where you stand.

2. If he is just jabbering, or in your case, changing the lineup, then you do the following: IGNORE HIM. If you don't know exactly what he's yelling: IGNORE HIM.</ol>

Hey all,

I agree, an umpire has to KNOW what was said to cause an ejection. How else can you do an ejection report with all the facts?

LomUmp:cool:

How on earth did this thread get a three star rating?

Who knows? Perhaps the guy who lets rats yell at him across the field rated it himself.

In a Fed game, young umpire objected to a coach telling him "You blew that call" twice, face-to-face, not across the field. Said rookie dumps coach.

I let too much of that kind of crap slide this year. 8 ejections in about 70 games, but it should have been more like 15. If someone comes up to me and tells me "you blew that call", there's a good chance I will dump him if I feel he is trying to intimidate me. If he's letting off frustration I'll probably say nothing.

As for yelling "you're killing us blue", this is something I used to not toss someone for in the past, but I am considering ejecting them in 2008.

And yes I did give this thread a 5 star rating, just as it deserves.

8 EJs in 70 Games?
 

You ejected 8 people in 70 games?

Not saying your ejections weren't valid, but you must be pissing some people off to get that many.

That's one every nine games! Reconsider that you probably should be letting even more slide, and not take it so personally, eh?

8 in 70 games? I've dumped 8 in 7 innings, so what.

BTW, why is the coach yelling sub's to a base ump in right field anyway? And, where can we reduce the rating on a thread?

Proving again that nothing has changed in your outlook on umpiring or yourself and that your assignor has the right opinion of your work.

WHAT work? WHAT assigner?


there ISNT one! excpet in his head :D

The first thing that you need to understand and learn from this situation is that when you dump a player or coach, is that they are being ejected for a specific reason. In your post you have questions about whether you should have run him after the first exchange. Here are some parameters to follow during a situation that may escalate towards an ejection:
1) First, never get into an exchange with a coach or player who is in the dugout or not in the vicinity of the play that is in question. If he wants to discuss it, he should come out and converse 1 on 1 with the umpire calling the play. If he declines to come out, move to your postion.
2) Umpires do not eject players or managers. Players and managers eject themselves. Once they cross the line, they have to go. It is important to understand this so as to not have any indecision or confusion as to why someone is ejected.
3) There is no turning back, EVER after someone has been ejected from a game. Never. You now write your report.

" When you look for trouble, trouble finds you" From the time you enter the field, remember, " You're in charge, be in charge"

Sorry. I thought that once. I thought, "no working umpire would ever say some of this stuff." But I was wrong.

Like it or not, he is real.

Richard on umpire.org wrote that he saw him at that Cooperstown scamfest and actually worked a game with him. His post is priceless. Richard struggles mightily to acknowledge canadaump6's existance without making one comment or hint as to his work. Richard is a diplomat.

But in the same thread, ohmygollycanada lets everyone know he struggled during the tournament.

Sorry, Larry. But he is real.

I've ejected that many in a season. Regardless of who started this thread, you cannot possibly come to this conclusion without knowing the circumstances.

It has nothing to do with taking it personally.

oh my god.

See page three of this thread:

http://www.umpire.org/modules.php?na...er=asc&start=0

*shocked and saddened* :(


thank you for the info mr Garth. its a sad moment for me.

I gave it 5 bleepin' stars.:cool:

I get this one with the 18+ MSBL studs, they scramble to put together 9 or 10 so the ranks are thin. As if I care. Hell, I can guarantee you that there have been times when a buddy drug his drugged buddy to the field and the drugged buddy had beserk on his mind for a reason. To go home. :D

Oh, you call kids? What an a$$hole you are. I hope you never call crippled lepers or blinded, one footed dwarfs. :D

In FED, you have the choice of putting the coach on the bus or making him sit quietly. Here in CT, we are asked to use the restriction first especially in a case where the offending coach is the only qualified adult Representative.

In the case above, it was a better choice to talk to the rookie as the veteran did and let the rookie make the change. Again, this was a FED game and the option was there. In an OBR or NCAA game, once gone, he has to stay gone.

Regards

It was an 18U high school league, so the "kids" had crossed the magical "players that shave" demarcation that gets yammered about here so often. Well, at least some of them had.

Even worse, I imagine, in the eyes of many here- besides the crippled lepers and blinded dwarfs I also work many games with...gasp!...girls!

First of all Garth, you're not making yourself look all that bright by acknowledging UmpLarryJohnson.

The reason Richard didn't comment on my work was because I was on the left field foul line, and had two routine foul calls all game. Garth, when did I say that I struggled during the tournament? You're full of crap. I said "enough coach" once. The coaches called in a tournament director ONCE because they didn't know the unnannounced substitution rule that I clearly explained to them. Their protest was not upheld.

You know Garth, I'm not perfect and I never said that I was. Of course I make mistakes. At least I'm not that you and your son are. Word is neither of you are as good as you claim to be.

When have you ever met, seen or read anything written by my son? Like maybe, never?

When he was your age he was working state high school and legion tournaments and college games. Unlike you, he never whined on internet boards about his treatment and he never posted anything bragging about his abilities. In fact, he has never posted on an umpire web site.

He recently finished his first year as a MiLB umpire and from what he has been told by evaluators, he's about as good as he thinks he is. (He thinks he needs to continue working hard and improving to stay in the game.)

As for me, point out a post where I described my abilities or performance level. If, in your mind, you have assigned me to a level of umpiring from the collective posts I've written, that's your opinion. I've never said that I was good, great, mediocre or crap.

When I've discussed my son with you it has only been to demonstrate that young people do not have to be held back by their youth. They can be dedicated. They can work hard. They can save their money and go to school and they can succeed. They don't have to just piss and moan about how they aren't appreciated by their assignors and then write one idiotic post after another.

I'd love to meet who you got your "word" from. One of you is a lying POS.

C'mon down little one. If you want to see what kind of an umpire I am, I'll schedule a double header and we'll work together if I can find a level you can handle. Our association doesn't handle anything below high school, but I have friend who assigns 9 and 10 year olds.

By the way, you are far too modest. You're already an arrogant prick. One doesn't have to be accomlished or experienced to excell at that. You're proof.

Which makes him the smart one in the family.:cool:

Agreed.

But unfortunately, since he is prohibited by his employer from posting on sites like this, it also makes him an easy target for cheap shots by jealous and ignorant little people.

Since he got to work the playoffs, is Matt going to be moving up to regular A-ball next season?

Next year assignments come out in February. Some rookie umps spend two years in rookie ball, some move up, some move out. That makes for two acceptable options.

While I did take a little bit of a cheap shot at your son, people have taken cheap shots at me all the time, so why shouldn't I be able to do the same?

That's all I've got to say in this thread.

Taking a cheap shot at his son is uncalled for because he's not here to defend himself, and he has never said a word here about you. Apparently you don't only LOOK young, but you ACT young as well.

Face it ... you're not doing university ball because you don't know simple rules and struggle with simple concepts. Refer to nearly any thread you've started for examples. I don't know you and I've never seen you work - but based solely on your posts - both the content (failing to understand many different rules, asking questions that I'd expect any 1st year guy to already understand) and the demeanor (your attitude here is that of a 12 year old cyberpunk) - I would have serious reservations putting you on the field with even my youngest groups, and would DEFINITELY be partnering you with someone strong.

Those cheap shots at you get deleted or edited. Yet you whine when your posts get moderated. You can't complain about others teking the same actions that you take.

I hope so.

Ummm..... perhaps because the son's of those posters never took a shot at you. How lame to attack someone who doesn't even post here. Go back under your bridge.

If there is only one coach in the dugout, and he has barely "crossed the line", I will use the dugout restriction option. If there is more than one coach, I always eject them, then tell the commissioner later that I should have restricted him. :)

I feel the only useful purpose of the dugout restriction is when there is only one coach and he is crossing the line, albeit, barely. Of course if he really crosses over it, I would not hesitate to ejected him and in effect cause the forfeit. I believe that falls under the "accountability" part of being an adult in charge of a team. ;) But with more than one coach, I am of the frame of mind that he either gets a warning, or should be ejected. If the commissioner is of the opinion that I shouldn't have ejected him (in Oregon, for FED games, an ejected player or coach has to sit out an additional game, as well as the school paying a fine), well, I will concede that point, but at least I got rid of the guy that day. :D

*edited to fix spelin' airors. :)

Just call me a rogue if you will. :D

levity
 

I have heard of some women that admit when they were wrong.

:rolleyes:

Me too. I've never actually met one though.

School paid fines? In MS the coach pays the fine (as of either the 2006 or 2007 season, I don't recall which)

I find that too often on this forum, umpires are looking for comebacks to a player's or coach's comments. Many times, a reasonable course of action to ignore the coach if he is yelling from across the diamond.

If he is walking that fine line and want him to say more to get tossed so that it doesn't look like you're chasing him from the game, and you want to acknowledge that you heard him, a simple glare in his direction is also effective.

Hmmmmm..................
 

I do not want anyone screaming at me across the diamond.

If he cannot comport himself in an adult manner and come to me and discuss the issue(s), then there is a good chance he will be ejected.

I don't yell at coaches or players across the diamond, and I don't tolerate them yelling at me in that manner.

I also don't engage in "comebacks" with coaches or players. I try to keep any contact with participants to a bare minimum. I've found that, more often than not, the game goes along more smoothly for all involved this way.

Canada, I will be kind, since you purport to still wanting to learn.

1) You don't ever "follow a coach" to get to him. Make him come to you. A coach wants to talk to you, make eye contact and don't move. If he still doesn't get it, motion him towards you.
2) If a coach begins to yell at you accross the diamond. Call "time", if it's not already called, beckon the coach to join you. "Coach, come here". Now, when he is within normal conversational distance tell him. "coach, i don't appreciate being yelled at accross the diamond. If you want to talk to me, this is how we do it". The ball is in his court now. The next time he yells at you from afar, eject him from afar.

I'm one of what is probably a very few who post here who has seen them both work. If you were up to their level, you wouldn't be complaining about what your assignor thinks of you.

Establishing the position of ultimate authority, agreed.

Approach slowly, and keep at least two arms distances away.

:eek:
No comebacks? The Old Guard on here has a book full of them and, by gollee, they bring them out like gunslingers shooting down coache s. About as accurately as Cheney hunts people, er, quail. Works every time for them. Jst ask them.

:eek:
Say nothing.

Get out of here with that effective, useful advice.

Harrumph. :p