Game Management
 

All things being equal eg. good knowledge of rules, mechanics, judgement, proper uniform, arriving on time, etc. what distinguishes the competent official from the exceptional one is game management. An exceptional official whom I respect said "it's knowing what to say and when to say it and I can't teach you this". What are your views on this?

He may be an exceptional official, but he's not a good teacher. There are plenty of ways to teach game management. Examples, videos, role playing, etc. I even have managers come in when I teach this at my clinics.

I get what he's saying, but if I can teach a twelve year old kid to send a 55 year old manager with a LL World Series under his belt, back to the dugout, it CAN be taught.

Game management requires good judgment. Good judgment has many broad guidelines which can be taught, for instance "be polite," "be firm," "don't put up with too much crap," etc.

The problem is that broad guidelines have exceptions. What cannot even in principle be taught is the recognition of (a) when an exceptional case has occurred, and (b) what to do in it.

This cannot possibly be taught, because to teach it, it would have to be part of the rule. And in that case, it's not an exception.

The good news is that good judgment comes to most people, to some degree, with experience. The truly great officials, like the truly great human beings, somehow learn more from experience than everyone else.

I believe that several basics of developing good game management skills can, indeed, be taught, but there may be some aspects that cannot. For example, I often believe one's individual temperament plays a role in game management. If one tends to be by nature a hothead or quick-tempered, being a good game manager may be more difficult or impossible. One's temperament is not really something that can be taught per se. After all, how does one "teach" a certain personality? Of course, it may be possible to teach how to control or mitigate such a potentially negative personality.

You can "teach" all the management skills that you want. The student can watch all the videos and games he/she can but it still doesn't do anything until the student is put into the position. That is why in the MLB schools, the role playing is one of the most important parts of the education.

I am considered by many to have good game management skills and this is one of the things that I try to instill on students. Well, last weekend, I was having an issue with my zone, the damn hernia tore even more and I barked at 2 different coaches for absolutely no reason!

Game management will change with every situation, every ounce of pain, every inning! It is not a fully "teachable" item nor is it something that can be "learned". It is something that needs to be experienced and controlled. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it is not and sometimes, you are your own worst enemy (like I was).

Regards

Fwiw
 

I think Game Management Skills increase with wisdom.

While most anyone can be taught to remember rules, situation control and the like, every facet of communication (verbal, non-verbal) has a large impact on how your game management skills are perceived by others.

In short, an "Exceptional Official" will be one [everything else being equal] who has a thorough understanding of communications skills and has extensive practice in their execution.
A "Good Official" will be one [everything else being equal] that has effective communication skills but has limited experience executing those.

My $.02

[QUOTE]I diagree with the aforementioned.

When it comes to game management is akin "to sitting on the bench and observing"

A QB in football can look at all the video, take in all the knowledge from the verteran QB etc. but it's not until he is "put in the line of fire" that he will "sink or swim".

Also, we all have different personalities and you cannot "teach" a personality.

I will give you an example. One of my partners kicked the s**t out of a call. The manager requested time and was livid. My partner listened for a while and then "out of the blue (no pun intended) said to the manager "skip, here have a life-saver it will make you feel better".

The manager didn't know what to say and simply started laughing and went back to his dugout.

This type of "method" will not work all the time but it did in that occasion. You can't "teach" that.

Yes you can "pick someone's brain" and learn how to control certain situations but for the most part Game mangement is not "taught" it is learned through both Experience and a persons make-up

Pete Booth

I posted this last year, and it fits with game management. The best game managers I've worked with are all AWARE of what's going on and then deal with things accordingly.

AWARENESS. I've been fortunate enough to be able to watch some excellent college umpires, and this is the one thing that seems to keep manifesting itself with the cream of the crop. They know what's going on, where the crap is coming from, where it's liable to come from, who doesn't like whom, past history, who the "players" are, who the "rats" are, who they can talk with and who they can go to to get things done. They know what the score is, who is frustrated (coaches AND players), which partners need "guidance", when to listen and when to raise their voice, when to warn and when to dump. They know the direction the game is headed at any given moment. They pay attention to "message" pitches, chirping, bench-jockeying, and even "eye-balling". They watch the weather, the fans, and they know where security and game management is. If you ask them, they can even tell you where the bathroom is, and the best hot dog in the league, the most economical hotel, and the best local steakhouse.

Along the lines of what Pete had to say, I don't believe it's 'one size fits all'. What works for one may not work for another. I've seen some officials say things to a coach or manager that I'd never dream of saying. Some people have a knack of defusing a situation with humor. For others a stern warning is what's needed. You have to know your abilities and have to be able to read the situation.

Nah, you're missing something
 

Men,

Game management is a set of three principles:

1. Treat other people the way you want to be treated, the Golden Rule always applies.
2. Learn to ignore/deal with pressure, as the old golf saying goes, "put a man on the golf course and you find out in three holes who he truly is." When you learn how to deal with pressure, you can handle any situation, or any manger, because you are the one with a cool head.
3. By experience, "Learn what is fair and right in baseball culture/language." Young umpires need to learn the right language and wrong language to use when a manager is either complaining, or ejecting himself. You need to know in OBR when to to ignore a HBP, and when to stomp on F1. In FED, you need to learn the nuances of enforcing the rules to make the game go smoother.

Master these, and you have good game management skills.

Simple Boardectomy
 

Notwithstanding some of the good points being made, may I offer this truism?

The key to IMPROVING Game Management Skills of many individual umpires is to have them find a way to remove the 2x4 from their Asses. (can I say that.. if not, replace with Butts)... but not nearly as effective.

If your Contractor agrees to a few simple game management rules for his coaches, game management becomes a non issue regardless of the age, experience or level of baseball.

WHAT, THIS IS A TOTAL NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

But I do it too :D

Absolutely. Game management is not doing HAHAHAs over life savers, it is a strict set of rules, conversation, warnings and action.

Do you actually do games at age levels where they shave?

The more important question: does he actually teach at clinics???

This from today's San Diego Padres/Colorado Rockies game:

SAN DIEGO -- This qualifies as bizarre, even for San Diego outfielder Milton Bradley.

Bradley, who has earned a reputation as being temperamental in his career, was ejected during the eighth inning of Sunday's 7-3 loss to the Rockies by first-base umpire Mike Winters after the two exchanged words.

Only it's not that simple, said Padres first-base coach Bobby Meacham, who witnessed the incident and said it is Winters and not Bradley who should bear the burden of guilt after what occurred in front of a crowd of 37,984 at PETCO Park.

"Everyone is going to make a twist that Milton Bradley blew up again," Meacham said. "This kid [Bradley] is doing a great job holding it together. He's not going to get thrown out because he knows his team needs him. But there's no possible way a man is going to stand there and take what he said to Milton.

"In 26 years of baseball, I couldn't believe my ears the way that he spoke to Milton. [It] was so disrespectful, so angry, so vindictive. The boiling point is when he called Milton a name. Milton did not saying anything to him to get him to do that."

The incident didn't begin with what happened in the eighth inning after Bradley reached base after a single, which was about the only thing the Padres and the umpire crew were in complete agreement on.

Bradley was called out on strikes to end the fifth inning. Plate umpire Brian Runge told the Associated Press that Bradley "... flipped the bat right in front of me, about 5 to 10 feet in front of me."

Runge asked Bradley before his eighth-inning at bat if Bradley had flipped his bat in the direction of Runge intentionally.

"He said 'no,'" Runge said. "He said, 'Did he [Winters] tell you that I threw at you? He started to point at Mike. I said 'no, no.' I even threw my hands up and told him to calm down."

Once Bradley arrived at first base, he engaged in what essentially appeared to be a tame conversation with Winters, who was standing behind him while play continued. That's when things got strange.

"I get a hit and I go to first base, and I asked him [Winters] 'Did you tell him I threw my bat at him?'," Bradley said. "He said, 'Yeah, you did.' I said, 'Are you kidding me? That's completely ridiculous. Why would you do that? Why were you even watching me? If I strike out, the inning's over, why are you even looking at me.'"

It was about then, when, according to Meacham, a fan in the seats down the first-base line yelled something from the stands directed toward Winters.

"Someone from the stands booed the umpire and Milton pointed to the guys in the stands. He didn't say anything, [he] didn't look at him. Then the umpire went off on Milton and called him a name," Meacham said. "If he had said that to me, I would have charged him."

The crew chief, Bruce Froemming, said Winter's actions were justified. Winters was not made available for comment after the game by Froemming.

"He got grumpy with Mike Winters," Froemming said. "Winters told him to knock it off and he continued it. There is no covering up what he did. He had to be physically restrained. We're not going to put up with that."

Bradley suffered an injury to his right knee when Padres manager Bud Black separated him from Winters. Bradley fell to the ground and clutched his knee. He then had to be helped from the field and complained of soreness in his knee after the game.

"It's killing me," Bradley said before leaving to have an MRI to assess the damage.

Meacham said that he was incensed further when the rest of the umpiring crew came over to where the incident occurred and Winters explained to Froemming what had happened.

"When he explained it to the other umpires when Buddy came out [it was a] straight lie," Meacham said. "I heard what he said and asked him why he was lying. He explained it to me again what he said and I said, 'That's a lie. You're wrong. You made a mistake. You lied.'"

Bradley said this was another case of him being unfairly maligned for past incidents. He shared that same sentiment earlier this month after he was ejected from a game against Arizona by home-plate umpire Phil Cuzzi for not leaving the batter's box quickly enough. Bradley never said a word in that incident before being ejected.

"All I do is try go out there and play baseball hard. I've done everything in my power to do things the right way," Bradley said. "That guy, Mike Winters, no reason for it. There is no reason for that. You don't ride people. He kept talking to me. He wouldn't stop. If he tries to say I did anything wrong, it's completely ludicrous.

"It's terrible, and now because of him my knee's hurt. If he costs me my season because of that, he needs to be reprimanded. I'm going to take some action."

END OF ARTICLE

It was also reported on the local news that Winters made a racist remark (the name he called him) to Bradley. There's your game management, I guess! :)

Before making any judgment, it would be nice to have sources other than rats and reporters.

Hello all. First, I'd like to start out by saying I have never been an umpire for anything beyond a pick-up baseball game (I'd like one day when I am able to in my job to perhaps get into umpiring), but I have found this site useful for finding out rules interpretations and I do enjoy the discussions I have read here.

I was at the Padres-Rockies game this afternoon and unfortunately, I could see a problem between Bradley and Winters coming from the moment Bradley flipped his bat. Brian Runge went to talk to Bud Black for a pitching change and I do not believe he saw the bat flip (from my angle, it didn't look like Bradley flipped it AT Runge, it was more towards the dugout, but definitely in disgust). At that point, Winters took a few quick steps towards home, but instead looked to Froemming and then went and talked to him at second. Winters was obviously talking about Bradley, because he kept pointing at Bradley and mimmicking throwing a bat. After the Top of the 6th, Winters went and had presumably the same conversation with Runge, again with the pointing and mimmicking. When Bradley reached first in his next AB, Winters came in closer to the bag as usual, but you could see he was already talking, and at that point, I knew Bradley wasn't going to be in the game much longer.

I don't know what was said and by whom since I'm not priviliged enough to sit that close to the game. I don't condone Bradley (or any ballplayer) when he does something stupid, or make excuses when they deserve to get tossed (e.g. Bradley v. Cuzzi). In this case, I can't say I blame Bradley, and I don't think Winters is being totally truthful. Bobby Meachem has no reason to lie and does not argue, and Bruce Froemming certainly isn't going to come out and say Winters was wrong, even if he was, to the public. It was a sad situation for all (although I suppose many of you will think it was hilarious that Bradley got injured in the whole thing).

Hope I didn't ramble too much.

Thanks reddevil for your comments. You did not ramble in the least bit.

I certainly don't think any ballplayer getting hit is funny, especially a player for whom I am rooting like Bradley.

Unfortunately for Bradley, his reputation precedes him. No matter what kind of fresh start he has made here, he has a reputation of being a pain in the butt toward umpires, and umpires (much like elephants) don't forget.

Just as we can say that Meachem has no reason to lie (besides the fact that he is a rodent and can't help it :)), Mike Winters is not the kind of guy who goes around acting this way. I know Mike and he is a very nice man. I've watched him umpire for years, attended classes that he has taught and have had several conversations with him. I would never believe him to act the way it has been reported.

There must be something more to this than just this one incident. I would venture to say there is a history between Winters and Bradley that goes back to before the Padres acquired him.

Mike Winters stuck his nose where it didn't belong. If Winters lets things linger, he shouldn't be wearing the uniform.

Such as upper level spectators and Tim McCarver? Jesus and Moses? Who are these definitive, unbiased sources you seek? :D

All my games are at levels that do not require shaving. It's optional. You want to tell a 25 yo ex Minor leauger throwing at the 90s to shave, be my guest. :p

On to game management, it's simple, get out your LL scratch pad.

1) Complaint
2) Coach not allowed on the field. If he is,
3) "Coach, we can have this discussion outside the lines"
4) Coach no go -second warning, ejection follows.

Too fast? Pencil break? Print this response.

5) Outside the line. You hear the Coach through, hands behind your back at a distance longer than either of your arms.
6) If he is ranting, you say "Coach, come to your point."
7) If he refuses, warn/eject
8) Once he stops, you explain your call.
9) Let him make comment.
10) "Thanks, Coach, but this is the way I saw it or
10(a) "this is the rule that and this is why the play stands."

11) If Coach begins to rant rather than discuss,

12) Two hands up in a "Stop" mode
13) "We're through here, Coach. Turn and take your position"
14)Eject on any continuation.

By goind through these simple(ton) Rules of Engagement, everyone can see you kept your distance, you allowed Coach his say, you warned, you exited and you hit the point of no return.

Questions?

Better than that. We are hired to setup game management policies for all participants and fans. This is a strict set of well definrd rules where the line of demarcation and unacceptable behavior is clearly understood.

And you?

Well, I agree with Garth. "Nice men" don't use racial epithets; smart ballplayers don't attack umpires. Who knows what really happened?

Calling Bradley a rat would be an insult to garden-variety rats everywhere.

I watched this game (as I'm a Phillies fan) and I saw the ejection coming a mile away. Bradley has the reputation he has for a reason -- he can't control himself, ever, and there's no reason the umpires should stand there and take that kind of crap from him.

Yes, I thought it was hilarious that Black tackled Bradley and injured him. Look back on the situation -- Winters never once lost control and was calm throughout the whole incident. Bradley was the one to seek Winters out and start **** with him.

Not coincidentally, the aluminum foil hats were out in Milwaukee yesterday, with Ned Yost ripping the umpires in the press. Two teams that choked away the weekend - let's blame the umpiring.

nice idea--let us know when you try some 90-foot games and let us know how THAT went :rolleyes:

squirt ball "Game management" -- har

I'm sure mikebran will let you know when he gets his college schedule next season.

Wow, to many steps for me to remember. If only it was that simple I'd take the time to memorize them. No two situations are the same. All require people skills. Sometimes (doesn't happen often) the Coaches have a point. When they do I"ll cut them some slack up to a point. Other times I'm on their a** from the get go. First pitch of the game Coach yapping about the strike zone. I'll nip that in the bud. Middle of the game maybe I will maybe I won't it just depends on how things are going.

My point too many variables to have rigid rules.

And you know this because you were there?????? How do you know what really happened? Winters is a damn good umpire and Bradley is a known trouble maker. My money is on Winters.

I think it's entirely possible that Winters baited him. I also think it's entirely possible that Bradley deserved it. But, both of those statements are just supposition.

Or:
 

". . . nice idea, let us know when you try some 90-foot games and let us know how THAT went . . ."

Perhaps he could have also talked with his crew when he finished calling the State Championship Final game of Washington largest schools.

Regards,

I personally don't find anything wrong with putting some cheese on a mousetrap, but then again one shouldn't call names. We'll see what happens. Bradley is threatening to take it to the highest court.:rolleyes:

guess getting hi asignments doesnt make one immune to silly posts, now does it?


say lah vee, life goes on.

Silly to you, absolutely 100% accurate to me.

I guess it might depend on what point in time the replay starts, but the one being shown on ESPN indicates that Bradley was jawing at Winters while taking his lead and Winters was responding.

MLB has hired lip readers in the past to help them determine who said what what in similar instances. I'll bet it's already been done.

I just heard an interview with Padres CEO Sandy Alderson who said that he would find it hard to believe that anyone could say that Winters didn't provoke the situation. He is not holding Bradley blameless, but he finds it impossible to imagine Bradley just melting down at first base all on his own. The prior at bat was brought up by Runge, and then again by Winters. Form all accounts of all witnesses so far, it appears that Bradley did not initiate the conversation concerning the flung bat.

Alderson won't make any comments specific to the case, but it appears that Winters did indeed bait Bradley with a racist comment of some sort. We will all just have to wait and see.

Sandy Alderson??? YGBSM.

Yeah, there's an unbaised voice being raised.:rolleyes:

ESPN is now reporting that the first base coach who accused Winters of a racial slur has changed his allegation to Winters said something that "could be taken racially."

ESPN is reporting that MLB is going to reach out to Todd Helton to find out what was said.


Tim.

Uh, we like Sandy out these parts. He is a very rational man and not prone to hyperbole. He is a respected baseball man around the league, being that he is a former MLB executive. I would not blame him for being a bit partial toward the Padres since he has a vested interest in the team.

Yeah, like Jose Canseco used to accuse the media of being racist because reporters asked whether he used steroids. :eek:

Wow, two different statements by ESPN....:rolleyes:

The most telling statement is, "No comment" by Winters.

There's more than his interest in the Padres that compromises his opinion. His antagonism with umpires goes way back. No one in MLB had a worse relationship with umpires. He is on record as questioning their ethics for years.

Alderson is scum.

Oh, so you have only umpired "ex" minor leaguers eh? :rolleyes:

That's an understatement, Garth. It is well-known that he truly disliked umpires and did everything he could to undermine or mess with them.

Alright then, how about Jerry Coleman. Who wants to bad mouth the WWII war hero and HOFer? He said that the umpiring that went on Sunday was the absolute worst he has ever seen and that there will be major implications when this shakes out.

When the Colonel says it's the worst, it's the worst.

As much as I normally stick up for the umpires, I don't do so blindly as if following a cult leader. I don't believe in towing the party line. If Winters went out of his way to provoke Bradley, then he was in the wrong. If Bradley initiated the trouble, then I will blame him. It seems to me that both parties, plus Runge had a part in this. We shall see.

From his vantage point in the broadcast booth I'm sure Jerry heard and saw everything. {sarcasm=Off}

Jerry's a homer from the word go.

Why do you feel the need to latch on to the flavor of the hour to hang Mike Winters?

Why not wait until it is all sorted out and then, if Mike is guilty of something, MLB will take appropriate action. If he isn't you all can put your ropes away.

Between Todd Helton and a lip reading expert, the truth will be known. Relax. You impartial Padre fans can wait a day.

Coleman is the worst ****ing homer I've ever heard and a lousy announcer to boot.

But that is exactly how you've been damning Winters...blindly, quoting one "expert" after another.

What do you have against waiting for the facts before ripping the umpire?

What do you have against waiting for the facts before ripping anyone who entertains the notion that Mike Winters may have been the instigator? Quit portraying yourself as the unbiased voice of reason, Garth. You're anything but.

If you read the posts, you will note that I haven't placed blame on anyone. I have criticized those who have permaturely blamed Winters. If at the end of the investigation that's where the blame belongs, so be it. But until then, neither party should be hung in the press or on the boards.

Voice of reason? Nahhhhhh, I've never claimed that. Patient enough to see the facts come out? Yeah. I've grown far more patient over the years.

I also don't feel the need to hide behind a phony name. That's usually for people with something to hide, or cowards or liars.

I found it funny that all the talking heads (mainly on ESPN Radio) this morning were taking Bradley's side. As if the umpire should just thank his lucky stars he's on the field and should repeat to himself over and over "I'm not the show, I'm not the show."

The announcer world and the rest of the world is so anti-official it shouldn't surprise me. But Bradley *is* a major league a-hole and everyone knows that. So it surprised me when everyone started blaming the calm, collected umpire (only one person in that altercation didn't lose his cool and it wasn't Bradley).

As apparently the only person who is reading this forum that was at the game and saw EVERYTHING that happened, I'm going to jump in again.

First, as a fan, someone who works in high school and JC athletics and someone who has both officiated and (gulp) coached both high school and midle school basketball, I respect the job officials do and baseball umpires in particular. However, as a fan of the game, I have never ever thought, "Wow, I get to watch 4 outstanding umpires tonight." So in a sense, I agree with the sentiment that umpires should not be the show.

Second, I don't find it that difficult to believe that someone who has practiced their craft for probably close to, if not over 30 years, perfecting it at its highest level, could maintain a perceived level of "calm" and "collected-ness," while at the same time getting some shots in. I'm not automatically agreeing with the assertion that Winters said anything racist, but he definitely added fuel.

Third, why not just get rid of Bradley on the spot in 5th if Winters thought it to be so out of line? If Winters would have tossed him (as I thought he was going to), no Padres fan or announcer would have thought anything other than Milton was stupid.

Finally, as this scenario played out, the Padres radio announcer on at the time (Ted Leitner and Andy Masur) were absolutely MURDERING Bradley. I agree 100% with Jerry Coleman and San Diego Steve, that if Coleman says it was the worst, it was the worst.

PS: Jerry Coleman is not even in the conversation for biggest homer or worst announcer. It starts with anyone working for the White Sox and ends with Ron Santo and has a lot of midwest and east coast trash in between

Most everyone has now seen EVERYTHING. What can be seen is not the issue.

Tell us what you heard Mike Winters say. The first base coach first said it was a racial slur. Now he says it was something that "could be taken" racially. What do you think?

I have it from a very good source in the Padres clubhouse that Winters provoked Bradley by calling him a "a ------- piece of ----."

You and Rich are never going to assign blame to an umpire, I know. Rip Jerry Coleman, whatever. He's a great man and this country still hasn't come close to repaying what he did for this country so blow the Jerry Coleman insults out your myopic wazzzoooos.

For the record, I have just been relaying what I've heard other people say. I have not formed an opinion either way yet, as the facts are not out there. If Jerry Coleman, who has forgotten (literally) more about baseball than you two put together have ever known says it was horrible, it was horrible. What does being a horrible announcer (Hall of Fame horrible announcer) have to do with the facts?

No matter who did what, it was poorly managed by the umpires any way you look at it, if you take the time to realize that umpires are supposed to be held to a higher standard on the field than the players and coaches. Why, because they are in charge of keeping order. They are the ones who are supposed to keep cool when others are losing their grip on reality. The umpires aren't supposed to go out of their way to set up a player just because they have a history with them. I can bait 'em and run 'em with the best of them, but they have to do something to deserve it. Bradley may or may not have deserved to get run, but they had to work awfully hard to do it.

I said that I would come down on whichever side is at fault. I also said that I was going to wait and see like everyone else. I'm just not blindly putting my faith in the umpires. Don't you remember where I posted and said that I knew Mike personally and that he didn't strike me as someone who would do something like this? I even said in a post to Tyler that I wasn't there and he wasn't there so it's all just speculation still.

I'm not in the "umpires are always right so shut up" camp, I guess.

Spell it out, Mon
 

Could you at least give us a few letters? Is this Wheel of Fortune or something?:)

I am not in that camp either, but I am not going to start throwing the umpire under the bus because some guy with a very bad track record starts going off either. Milton Bradley has a history of acting out with fans, umpires and players. And he got hurt overreacting to a comment. You can talk all day about being held to a higher standard, but I did not see Winters having to be restrained by anyone. Bradley even had the nerve to blame his injury on Winters.

And I am definitely not going to start taking the word of coaches and fellow players say happen. I have seen how they will lie to support their position even when others hear the conversation. Please, do not get on your high horse about what umpires should do based on a he said, he said situation.

Peace

Well said imo. Spoken like a sports official, not a fanboy.

As I said in my first foray, I didn't hear anything, because I don't have that kind of money. When I said "saw everything," I'm talking about the in between inning stuff that I guarantee is not available to those of you not there. The animated conversations between Winters and Froemming right after the fact, and Winters and Runge after the next half inning.

It's too bad this wasn't one of those Saturday afternon games with microphones in the bases. Then this would be over with already.

PS: Jerry Coleman is not even in the conversation for biggest homer or worst announcer. It starts with anyone working for the White Sox and ends with Ron Santo and has a lot of midwest and east coast trash in between[/QUOTE]

Hey Reddevil of course Santo is a homer he bleeds Cubbie Blue!!!!!!!!!! And yes he not the best color guy (everyone in Chicago will tell you that) in fact he can be so bad he's good.

You sign a Milton Bradley you take your chances. Even if he was provoked in this case. Stupid acqusition might cost you a post season shot.

Speaking of signing head cases, which AL team will sign Barry Bonds for next year? $15M, anyone? Beuler? Beuler?

Baseball people I respect seem to think that he will certainly get a contract for next year to DH. Golly, I hope it's not my team...

I can't speak for Rich, but you apparently don't know when it comes to me.

The archives on this board hold numerous posts in which I hold MLB umpires accountable for bad actions.....Froemming, Brinkman, West, Hernandez....

I'll wait until all the evidence is in, however. There will be plenty of time to discuss who really did what when we know who really did what.

And there were plenty of pilots that did what Coleman did and more who don't have people whining for them. I appreciate his service on behalf of his country. His broadcasting sucks.

Okay, so you don't know anymore than anyone else.

I never said anything about Coleman's service, but his service doesn't give him a free pass to be a lousy, homer announcer or anything else, for that matter.

I won't back Winters blindly, but Bradley's track record speaks for itself. So the talking heads giving benefit of the doubt to Bradley over a guy who has worked MLB for 17 years without a blemish I can remember shows that these morons and ex-players will always back the players over the officials. I won't do that. The Padres should've known what they were getting when the signed Bradley.

Oh, and it's funny how things like this happen when a team is choking away a Wild Card berth. It's hard to win with two hands wrapped around your throat, gentlemen.

Does any non-SD fanboy find Sandy Alderson a credible person in all this? That piece of garbage had it in for the umpires the entire time he was a MLB executive.

I'm willing to wait this out and see what happens.

Uhhhh, while your "very good source" in the clubhouse was telling you secrets, this quote had already been included in a FOX article on the event.

If the allegation is true, I'd agree that it was inappropriate for Winters to verbalize this commonly held opinion of Bradley.

It was wrong. But it certainly doesn't qualify as a "racial" comment as San Diego has alleged.

If you'll go back and look, I never said that I did hear anything. I know what I saw in between inninngs. I know that someone who points at someone and mimmicks something they just did is talking about that person. I know that someone who 5-10 minutes later feels it necessary to go do that again with someone else is not having an easy time of just letting it go.

I will not add anything more. My first thought, after "Dammit Milton stop" was wondering how the situation would be discussed here. So far, I've not been surprised.

Maybe he'll argue that sh!t is brown, therefore....

I've seen sillier arguments in my time.

[/QUOTE]

IMO, what's getting overlooked is that Bradley if not stopped by someone would have phsically asaulted an official.

There is a way to handle things. If Winters (and we still do not have the entire story) did utter a racial comment then he should be reprimanded by the league.

Suspended for the remainder of the season and playoffs (if he was on the lsit) and his future as an official in MLB to be determined.

Write or Wrong reputation comes into play. I am a NY Giant Fan and because of Jeremy Shockey's rep he does not get the benefit of doubt. He recently got called for a 15 yard unsportmanlike conduct penalty in the Packer game that was suspect but Shockey only has himself to blame.

Same with Bradley.

This does not get the official "off the hook" if indeed he instigated the entire episode.

The point I am making is that you cannot have an athlete in prime condition attack an official.

There is a way to handle things.

Pete Booth

And just who are you a fanboy of? What team do you homer for? Don't tell me you just root for the umpires. You don't have a team that you enjoy watching? Your not a baseball fan? I'm sure if it were your team this was happening to you would be singing a different tune. Not a fanboy my a$$.

Probably a Phillies Fanboy based on your "choking away the wild card" smack you're running. Just for your information, in case you weren't watching, the Padres had won seven straight before they ran into a hot Rockies team that had great pitching. Peavy should be able to right the ship next time out there. We'll see when the dust settles. Even if the Padres don't make it, at least they were back-to-back NL Division Champions. Was your team?

Wow. Division Champions. When's the last time the Padres won the World Series?

Yes, I'm a Phillies fan, but I don't "fanboy" for them.

Would it be alright for Bartolo Colon to attack?

As a Phillies fan, I wish Antonio Alfonseca would.

And as a Yankees fan, I wouldn't mind seeing Kyle Farnsworth suspended until....oh.... about November, 2008.

Steve, really, what does being a war hero have to do with baseball knowledge ? Nothing, really. I agree with your assessment of his service to this country, but that doesn't mean anything in this particular discussion.

http://forum.officiating.com/showpos...2&postcount=22


You memorize (generally) how many rules, lines of text? 100s? 1000s?

If you are out there winging it with your people skills, without set parameters of behaviour, you are going to find that when ejecting the complaint will be "inconsistent".

These days, ex-professional players make up approximately 20% of those that I umpire. Not many players haven't had @ least a 2 year collegiate experience.

Uh, dude, I never said his service record had anything at all to do with his knowledge.

Perhaps the fact that he was a star second baseman with the New York Yankees for 9 seasons, several of which were cut short due being recalled to active duty to fight another war, had something to do with it. He would have played more seasons but had to go fight for his country after being drafted by the Yankees in 1942. He is in the Broadcasters Wing of the Hall of Fame. He has been an announcer for the Yankees, Angels and Padres, not to mention CBS Radio's Game of the Week for years. He even stepped out of the booth to manage the hapless Padres in 1980. The man knows baseball. He's seen more baseball than all of us, and just because he's not as good of a broadcaster these days is no reason to bash him. He's in the HOF for cryin' out loud.

I took umbrage to people being disrespectful of Jerry Coleman. The man is not a homer, he says it like it is. Anyone who knew WTF they were talking about would never say he's a homer. I've sure heard worse.

And Rich F.---I got your fanBOY hangin' low and left.

Join the "We Hate Kyle" association ("WHKA") started by North Fulton High School coaches when he was at Milton HS, Alpharetta GA. :D

Didn't miss that for one second, Pete.

With you all the way :D

Colt 45.

A brewski for all the races!

Whatever. He's terrible. I live in Wisconsin. I think Bob Uecker is worse. Not popular around here, but people believe what they want to believe.

coleman = homer. that is all






j/k

Handling situations is an art that comes with experience. I have some general rules that are automatic ejections. Making contact, charging me saying " you suck etc.

Other situations I handle on a case by case basis. Rest assured I know when to launch.

Umpire Mike Winters suspended for remainder of regular season over Bradley flap

By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer
September 26, 2007

NEW YORK (AP) -- Umpire Mike Winters was suspended by Major League Baseball for the remainder of the regular season on Wednesday because of his confrontation with San Diego's Milton Bradley last weekend.

The Padres claimed Winters baited Bradley, who has a history of losing his temper. Bradley tore a knee ligament when his manager spun him to the ground while trying to keep him from going after the umpire during Sunday's 7-3 loss to Colorado in San Diego.

Well, that will give Winters a few days to rest up for the playoffs.

Since there's now another thread dealing with this (Winters adv. Bradley) matter, I think it's time for this thread to close.