batter kicks the ball out of play
 

R1, wild pitch, the ball bounces off the catcher at the batters legs and rolls into the dugout. how many bases gets the runner from 1st ?

same sit but now the ball rolls behind the batter and comes to rest. the batter doesnt know where the ball is and takes a step back and kicks the ball with his heel into the dugout. can R1 advance on this play, and if YES, how far ?

1. One base on a pitch that goes out of play.

2. Since the kick is unintentional, one base on a pitch that goes out of play.

thanks

Let me just add this. This is a one base award as long as there was sufficient momentum on the pitch itself for the ball to travel into DBT. If the umpire judges that the deflection by the catcher added additional impetus to cause the ball to go out of play when it otherwise wouldn't have, then it's a two base award from TOP.


Tim.

Tim No books with me , TOP or Time of Deflection from catcher.

Some reason, I thought it was from time of Deflection

It's TOP. From the J/R:

A subsequent push of a pitch or in-contact throw occurs when such pitch or throw is errant, but does not have sufficient momentum to enter DBT or to become lodged, and remains on the playing field. The ball itself (not in possession by a fielder) is subsequently pushed (shoved, kicked, bumped, etc.), and the new momentum (not direction) provided to the ball causes it to enter DBT or become lodged. Each runner is awarded two bases beyond his TOP base.


Tim.

So why would R1 not get 2 bases - it's no longer gone into DBT on its own momentum, the ball came to rest and it was kicked out. It would be a 2 base award if the catcher kicked it out. what's the difference?

I say:
1. one base TOP
2. two bases TOP

edit to add: - I just now read the J/R quote thoroughly and my question is answered in it. I hadn't seen anyone answer two bases on the kicked ball, so I was confused.

FED case book states TOkick - Haven't found anything else - So I'm sticking with Tim's J/R quote.

Thank guys.

Now we know, when Fedlandia do as the Fedlands do.

Read the sitch again, the catcher didn't knock it into DBT, the batter did.

We must be reading it differently.


Tim.

Tim was only addressing OP play #1. You are referring to play #2.

I guess I was, but I was also reading off the catcher at the batters legs to mean it went off his legs, and the title of the thing was batter kicks ball, so in the first sitch I thought it went off the batters legs, and in the second he kicked it with his heel as he was stepping back.

Yeah, I found the whole thing pretty confusing myself. I thought the same thing until I read it a few times.:)

If the catcher has a play on the runner at first, who should be stealing in this instance, and the batter kicks the ball (intentional or not), why would it not be interference/dead ball/batter out/runners return to last base occupied at the time of interference?