Chipper Jones - #1 whiner in baseball?
 

Need one say more?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Yeah they are on a losing streak mainly because of their lack of pitching, but he also has a point - MLB umpires have taken a step back.

Just read all of the posts this season - a lot more than usual.

And Reed does have an awful strike zone.

Thanks
David

Funny how he didn't complain when Maddox and Glavine were pitching for the Braves. Talk about wide strike zones. I watched Lopez set up with his outside foot out of the box and get a strike simply because he didnt move. The ball was off the plate by more than just a bit. He didn't complain then, so why is he complaining now?

I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now, still, perhaps he would like some cheese and crackers also!

Jones is #2
 

He learned from #1, his longtime manager, Bobby Cox. Now that's the definition of RAT!

So the amount of whining is related to the quality of umpiring? Your post sounds like it was written by a Braves fan......or a rat.

I saw several pitches from the game last night. Two of the pitches were clearly strikes that Chipper looked at and it appeared he was not happy with. There was one that was very close, but if you want to watch pitches, you put it in the hand of the umpire to make a judgment. He even walked on a pitch that was very close and the umpire balled that I think could have easily been called a strike.

The problem with a lot of players is they want someone to help them out. If you do not want to be called for a strike, swing the damn bat. Not all pitches are going to be right down the middle so you can drive them out of the park.

Peace

Did you see the game?

Reed did not have "an awful strike zone." His was very close to what MLB has been yammering for the last five years, more vertical than horizontal.

The pitches Chippy moaned about were strikes.

I find it amazing that he whines that loudly when even a frustrated Bobby Cox didn't complain about it.

It was a high strike. For Chipper to say the pitch was in the other batter's box is ludicrous. He just assumes all watching are umpire-hating morons.

The key is that it was a high strike, right where MLB has said it wants it called.

Ah, your claim here distinguishes you from Chipper and his ilk. They all think that THEY are MLB.

Some suit-wearing, latte-sipping, wannabe poseurs yammering at umpires about how to call a plate has nothing to do with baseball: Chipper himself said he has more walks than strikeouts, so obviously he knows where the strike zone is.
[/tongue-in-cheek]

Tell Chippy to go hang out at Hooters......

Why? He has one at home.

If the strike zone was so bad, why are the rest of the Braves not crying and complaining. Even Bobby Cox was not complaining. Shut up Chipper and swing the bat.:p

As The Years Roll By...

Jones was a some-time show at Boss' strength training facility in ATL, never dedicated to his off season. He was born to play and he knew it. But his head has grown the size of a watermelon and when the Braves oredered him inot a post season rehab/strength training program, he went out and bought $50K of weight machine crap and put it in his house. Rarely used it. :rolleyes: Called Boss, "come train me." U, like No.

His head came unravelelled after he beat the Hooter's rap and when he remarried, he built a new mansion on the corner of, I swear this is true, Bowen-Jones Road. :D

Boss lived literally around the corner, saw Jones at the local gas stop, aksd him how his new house was. "They named the street after me."

:D :D :D

Only if was 75 years old.

I didn't watch the entire game but I did see the at bat Chipper talked about. I thought the pitch was up and in.

Must be just me but I still don't like the high strike they try to get called, its just not consistent game to game no matter how hard they try.

Generally, Reed is not one of the better ball and strike umps - haven't see the charts this year where the players rate the umpires but if I remember right he's usually not at the top of the list.

thansk
David

In the olden days of the pathetic Eric Greggs and Joe Wests, their zones were so comical that they deserved bottom rankings. Today, zones are much tighter, more uniform. Gregg wouldn't have lasted a half-season.

Point: How much can the players actually tell about zones? It's more a small "miss" here or there. How many actually track umps, sitting on the bench all but 4 ABs at best a game.

I'll take technology over players (ala Whiner Chippie Jones) any day.

No, he knows that many watching are Chippie Jones fans who swoon at his every word. :rolleyes: As of 2006, I saw Atlanta women who wore shirts by the gross that said.

"I want to be Chipper's Dipper"
"Chipper, Hoot at My Hooters"
"We Luv You, Chipper"

Fathers on diamonds "Ok, Chipper does it this way, he knows, listen to him"

Here's the best ones overheard by Roswell GA mothers in the stands.

"She (Chippies first wife, they NEVER use her real name) didn't satisfy him.
She got what she deserved.
She's getting all that money too.
He was tempted, she could have been there for him
He's alone when he travels, it wasn't right but..
Ok, he cheated on her. That was wrong. But look where she is now!"

Yes, Atlanta luvs Chippie and Chippie luvs to play out his "sorrows" to Atlanta.

Excuse me while I vomit.

By far your best post ever. I could not agree more. Did I say that?:eek: :confused:

God, David, who CARES what the players think?

On Chipper and Umpires...
 

For entertainment purposes only

http://www.geocities.com/straightfor...ofthetape.html

is Chipper a tomcat??


i dont follow braves baseball that much

Sounds good in theory, but in reality if I were a MLB umpire I would not want to be rated the worst umpires in the league.

Something to do with "being the best at whatever I do" just don't sit too well with me.

Of course as an umpire we don't care what a player thinks about a game especially when they are losing - same for coaches.

But in the grand scheme, what the players think of you goes a long way.

thanks
David

How do you figure that? Players come and go in many cases more than umpires. You cannot seriously think that if players do not like you that is going to affect if they keep you?

Peace

I care what my BOSSES think, not the players.

Not really...it's not a popularity contest out there.

From the ML site:

Rick Reed 23
CREW CHIEF

Major League Service Time: 25 Years
CAREER: Joined the Major League staff in 1983...has worked the All-Star Game (1986, 98), Division Series (1997, 2000, 01), League Championship Series (1989, 95, 99) and World Series (1991)...worked Dave Righetti’s no-hitter, Joe Cowley’s no-hitter and the game George Brett reached the 3,000-hit plateau...previously umpired in the Appalachian League (1973-74), Midwest League (1975), Eastern League (1976-77) and In ter na tion al League (1978-82).

PERSONAL: Rick Alan Reed...married Cynthia (11/26/76)...has two children: Ryan (2/9/80) and Tyler (12/11/92)...resides in Michigan...received a B.A. in Business Ad ministration from Eastern Michigan University in 1975...works with the Oakland County Baseball Federation...began umpiring Little League games when he was 13 years old for $5 per game...played American Legion baseball...works as a part-time actor in the offseason... enjoys being “Mr. Mom” in the off-season...played the home plate umpire during Kevin Costner’s 1999 movie “For Love of the Game”...would pursue a career in law enforcement if he was not an MLB umpire...named to national board of trustees of his fraternity, Delta Sigma Phi.

Do you really think he gives snot what Larry (RPS) Jones or any other disgruntled player thinks?

If any of you want to get a good idea of strike zone accuracy by MLU's you can watch the Gameday application. Most parks are now running the PITCHf/x tracking system which displays the path, trajectory, release speed, result speed, amount of break, and position in the strike zone for every pitch during a game. It is accurate to within a half-inch and often much less. Most pitches that I track are accurate to within 2/10's of an inch. You can also go back and replay a pitch sequence from any at-bat. Here's a screenshot I just took during the Cubs game:

http://menotomyjournal.com/mlbvids/gameday.jpg

How do you know? (Not questioning, just asking)

Hey Jim, post Chipper's at bat from the whining incident.

The software displays the error margin for each pitch triangulated from three camera positions.

Here it is. The two red dots are the first two pitches of the at-bat and both were called strikes. He ended up walking.
http://menotomyjournal.com/mlbvids/chipper.jpg

Well, lookie there. Right in the strike zone.

Looks like Reed did good job and Larry did what he's most famous for.

nice posts jim...the gameday feature is nice.

The bottom of the strike zone seems kinda high to me.

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the knee cap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

The bottom of the zone on the gameday screen appears to be at the top of the knees.

Just checking, and meaning no insult...you do know the difference between "beneath" the knee and "below" the knee...right?

No insult taken. I read the definition of the zone as the bottom being the soft soft (or hollow) just south (toward the feet) of the knee cap. Is this not how you interp?

Nope. "Beneath" in this case could kind of be replaced with "behind" if you use the cap as the knee.

I should have clarified this -- the virtual batter you see is not accurate. That virtual batter is the same for everybody, except he's on the right side for a right-handed hitter. The strike zone is not properly aligned with the virtual batter. The relationship between the strike zone and each pitch is accurate for each batter, it is just that virtual batter that's not accurate. It is a work in progress, and maybe the virtual batters will be better next year -- but they are just there for show.

I wish I could say more about the sizing of the strike zone, but I've signed a confidentiality agreement and that information is not something I can share.

Oh yeah, and I was promoted to Tech Support a couple of weeks ago, so I'm not just an operator anymore. Now I supervise and assist operators at all venues across MLB when I'm not working at Chase Field.

and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the knee cap.


So that is just another way of saying" The centerline of the kneecap". Right?

That's a phrase that could use some cleaning up.

Jim,

You state the accuracy is within 2/10ths of an inch.

I have never seen an inch broken down into 10ths before. Are you stating that the accuracy is between 3/16ths and 1/4 of an inch?

Guess you don't work in manufacturing or engineering.

I was just writing out the decimal point number. My best error reading so far has been .18", or a little less than .20" = 2/10ths or 1/5th of an inch.

And your interpretation of this is based on what? How do you get "behind" as being what was intended? Why wouldn't they just say "behind the knee" if that's what they were trying to get at?

Last I checked my patella (which was just now), the hollow of the knee is directly below my kneecap, on the front of my leg, not the backside of it.

From my limited understanding, when they changed the bottom of the strike zone from "top of the knee" to "the hollow beneath the kneecap," it was to make the strike zone bigger. If you look at the diagram in the rule book, the dotted line representing the bottom of the zone intersects the hollow directly beneath the front side of the knee. That line is significantly lower (perhaps an inch or so) than the crease that is "behind" the knee.

There is a hollow directly below (which means beneath) the patella. Everyone has one. It is the visible indentation which I have used to determine the low end of the zone ever since they rewrote the rule. There is no hollow behind the knee.

I majored in Physical Education, which is very similar to pre-med in its classroom studies, with Anatomy, Physiology, and Kinesiology and never once heard of there being a "hollow" on the anterior of the knee. The patellar ligament is directly below the patella, and behind that is the meniscus, which is the hollow of the knee. Behind the leg there is no knee, just a fibrous capsule which separates the femur and tibia.

When the doctor scrapes the area beneath your knee cap, does he scrape below it?

The old image of the strike zone at ML used to have the low point line extend right to the backside of the knee. Now, I believe it points to the knee.

I'll take pro school instructors and ML interps, Steve.

This really isn't worth the BW. Call what you'd like, I merely answered a question with correct, albeit, inconsequential information.

No. And I am not a meteorologist, either. :)

Have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ? :D

The centerline of the knee cap is just that. The hollow of the knee is the point at which the knee cap ends (toward the foot). It is not hollow, it is filled with the tendon that connects the knee cap to the lower leg bone.

And this centerline moves, so does the zone, up and down as the knee cap moves up and down as you bend your knee.

Several morons, er less intellectually enhanced umpires, use this variation in the lower part of the strike zone to make their case that your original position as you get in the box is the zone they call. :rolleyes: See standing figure in OBR.

The hollow is the indentation that is left/right of the ligament that connects the patella with the tibia. If you use this hollow, then you have Superman X-Ray vision. It is almost always covered by the pants. :eek:

The "knee" is a joint (no not like smoking tumbleweed ;)); anterior and transverse to the joint is the hollow created as described above.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzt. The patella (knee pad) slides over the knee joint. The meniscus is inside the joint...

http://www.eorthopod.com/images/Cont..._anatomy01.jpg

Note it is not hollow there. The meniscus (cartilage) is inside the knee joint. The hollow occurs right/left and is created by the patellar ligament.

What? The leg where? The leg includes the knee joint. :eek: :confused:

My God, Steve, what would have ever happened in phys ed class, if you had a pateller dislocation?

"Get up, you wimp, there is no leg behind your knee so that thing that is horribly deformed and looks like a small plate over on your thigh ain't anything.";)

The verbiage is the hollow of the knee. It's crap. It was about "at the knee" so MLB moons without being anatomically correct, whilst swiggin brewskis no doubt, came up with this trash.

For me, if the ball, with pants on and Super X-ray vision "Off", the top of the ball, is at the bend of the knee which I can see protruding outside the pant when B flexes, I got a strike.

Other than that, at close strikes have a hell of a lot more to do with the quality of F1/F2 play. And B play.