When is BR Out?
 

From the Giants/Rockies game Tuesday night (bottom of fifth):
R2 (Rajai Davis), no outs. B2 (Omar Vizquel) bunts fair down the first base line. F3 (Todd Helton) fields ball about thirty feet in front of first base as R2 arrives at and (let’s say) rounds third. BR stops about thirty feet down the line and F3 advances on BR at a half-trot for a tagout. BR backs up for about ten feet, then turns around and runs into the Giants third-base dugout without being tagged.

Question: when is BR out?
a) the instant he begins to back up towards home;
b) as soon as he backs up three feet to avoid the tag;
c) immediately upon touching home plate;
d) immediately upon passing home plate or the third base line;
e) as soon as he leaves the thirteen foot dirt circle around home plate;
f) at the point that the umpire judges that BR has abandoned his running duties; or
g) upon entering the dugout.

I think it's (F).

Love these "sliders in between the rules". Note that no one touched this jewel.

I got him out as soon as he is 3 feet off the baseline. Reason? The rules do not favor chasing Rs who bend them for stupidity like this. Next reason? I don't put up with crap. Sue me. Protest, please. I can come up with a dozen ways to play that game and you're still going to be out.

c

or when PU has judged abandonement...it's pretty clear in the PBUC manual

the runner going backwards between 1B and Home and being immediately out is a softball rule.

Well I am not sure where he ever went "3 feet off the baseline" in your thread however, I would go along with F.

"C". I think it's right in PBUC. By extension, I'd also use "D"

He can't be out for abandonment till he reaches first.

The dirt circle applies to D3K.

3' applies to leaving the (his) base path -- you could have this if he ran sideways to avoid a tag.

You are correct, Bob, with your PBUC reference. Base abandonment generally isn't "invoked" when a B-R retreats toward home or just stops on his way to first waiting to be tagged, mainly because SOMEone ends up tagging him. (Of course, if no tag is ever applied and the B-R just walks off the field, he can be called out for abandonment.) In the situation detailed here, once the batter-runner reaches home plate, he is to be declared out. NCAA interp. is the same.

BTW, if said B-R is obstructed during his retreat, it is to be called only if it is intentional.

Not in baseball

Not if he remains in the basepath as he backs up

Yep.

Nope.

You're thinking of when he loses the opportunity to run on a dropped third strike.

I believe "abandonment" requires reaching first base.

Garth,

If a BR retreats beyond home and fails to touch it, I'm banging him out on "d)".

JM

UmpJM, (That sounds so much better)

I read the OP as each option occurring, pretty much in order. Thus the B/R is already out when "d" occurs. If that's not the case, then I would agree with you.

c) and d) would be my choices.

By interpretation c) is definitely correct. But what if the BR retreats and doesn't actually touch the plate? If he retreats past it (i.e. past the third baseline), he is also out.

The batter would also be out by entering the dugout (g), but he would be out well before then if I thought he left the baseline for the purpose of avoiding a tag. I think I would always rule that the runner left the baseline for the purpose of avoiding a tag since I am very unlikely going to allow a runner to veer off, stop short of his dugout steps, and then make a break for 1st.

The ruling would be that the BR is out-of-the-baseline. The ball remains live.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

C, D, and G.

He's out when I say he is!

By rule a B/R who has not reached first base cannot be called out for "abandonment". This is straight from the J/R manual.

He may be called out for desertion...but he can't be called out for abandonment.

UmpJM and other are right...when he touches or passes home plate during his retreat...he should be called out.

so we can split hairs on terminology (abandonment/desertion), but if he gives up his attempt at achieving 1B...at some point to be determined when I see the situation, I'm calling him out.