Can they do this?
 

I was calling a FED game last night where the coach of the defensive team requested time out and came to the mound to talk to his infielders. As he approached the mound, he threw a ball to his F5 who played catch with F6 as the coach talked with the pitcher on the mound. I told him he could not do that. He stopped without questioning me, but after the game, I decided to look this up to be sure. I cannot find anything anywhere that does not allow this. Any help?

If there is a rule that prohibits, I am unaware of it. Personally, I am going to ask for the players to stop.

Perhaps you couldn't find it because it isn't there.

Guess I am happy I didn't look.

Why ... who cares what they do during their allowed time? As long as no one's pitching to a catcher, and they don't delay the game any more than a normal conference would because of their actions, it's none of my business.

I do, get over it. Go to work, I am. Do you?

Specifically allowed in NCAA as long as both players are already in the game.

You seem to be motivated to pick a fight with me... I'm not taking the bait.

Just wondering why it would bother you enough that you'd feel the need to make up rules to justify your need to prove that you're in charge.

It's a non issue, and not against the rules at all.

its a issue when fit-yet-interested ump needs to stack uphis post count :D

Yes, they can do this as long as they do not delay the game.

There was a time that some FED clinicians tried to sell prohibiting it as a "safety" concern. One told me that there should only be one ball on the field. When I pointed out to him that we had no concern of such safety issues when the infielders warmed up at the beginning of each half inning, the response he could come up with was: "that's different, that's traditional."

Bottom line, it's legal. Only an OOO would try to stop it.

From the FED 2006 Interpretations:
SITUATION 10: Coach of Team A requests and is granted time for a defensive charged conference. As he goes to the mound to talk with his pitcher, he tosses a ball to his third baseman and tells him to begin warming up with his shortstop in case he is needed to pitch. The coach leaves the mound without removing the pitcher. RULING: This is not allowed. A charged conference permits a coach or his non-playing representative to confer with a defensive player or players but does not permit any warm-up pitches by a player who is not the pitcher. (3-4-1)

Yep,
 

Thanks to Blue37. I knew I had seen this ruling somewhere but I could not find it.

A challenge with the new interps each year is that the NFHS kindasorta hides them when the new year breaks.

Regards,

You have the connections now, but in the recent past we have been told this applies to what the wording addressed, a player not the pitcher throwing warming up pitches, not F6 throwing to F3.

I wish they hadn't inserted the part about bold above in there. :mad:

Why not ... the ruling was supposed to specifically address someone warming up as a pitcher ... not just two guys throwing a ball. If they hadn't inserted it, OOO's would use this ruling to apply to the OP, like you seem to want to.

If you're interested ... this ruling doesn't FIT.

So what you're saying is a coach can beat this rule as long as he doesn't verbalize his intention.
If a coach brings out a ball for a specific player he probably has a specific reason.
I'm not an OOO but I would be inclined to stop it, or at the very least make it a very quick conference.

Similar but different sitch
As def. coach approaches mound for conference F6 yells to F1 and says"hey Joe, throw me the ball"
F6 and F5 play catch during conference with no apparent direction from coach, now I have nothing.

Let's change the situation (without starting a new thread)"

1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.

Is this okay in your games?

2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.

Is this okay in your games?

This is another one of those funky FED rulings that opens a fresh can of worms.

If the coach doesn't verbally indicate that he's giving the kids the ball besause one of them "might be needed to pitch", then I guess you just have two guys throwing a ball around.

It takes two to toss it. Without some verbal indication, how do you know which kid is warming up and which is the surrogate catcher? Aren't they both essentially "warming up"?

Absent the verbal, "Here you go, Lefty. Start warming up to pitch", if no pitching change was made during the visit to the mound, how do you know if one of them was really warming up?

Suppose you let the two kids throw it around, but no pitching change is made at that time. Does this preclude bringing either of the two players in to pitch at some point later in the game?

If not, how would you retroactively go back and tell somebody not to do something they already did two innings ago that is clearly a violation?

Inquiring minds want to know! :D

Is this old F1 or new F1?
If it's new F1 NO unless he's going to forfiet his warm up tosses.
Old F1 is no longer in game and shouldn't be on field but I don't know if I'd say anything or not. It's never happened in a game I've been around and doubt it will. But for the sake of answering the question I'll say no.



The first grounder he throws to F5 is fine, but then the conference is over so he may get one more grounder in while the coach walks off the field.
So I guess the answer is yes it's fine as long as there is no delay of game.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I don't know what got into my fingers....

I meant F3 as in first baseman not F1.

Let's try again:

1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay in your games?

2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay?

This happens often. Yes

Don't remember it ever happening, but Yes


Back to OP this is totally a judgement call.
Let's say F6 had been shaken up in previous half inning, got on field late and didn't have chance to test the arm. Coach sees him working the shoulder and comes out for def. conference with ball and tosses to F6. At this point I know this is not a ruse to warm up the next pitcher, no problem.
If F1 is struggling, no one is warming up in bull pen, Coach comes out for conference with ball in hand and tosses to F6, I may be inclined to judge that F6 is warming up, not allowed.
If you don't allow it and your judgement is wrong there is no real harm done.
If you do allow it and indeed F6 is warming up and 2 batters later F6 enters as pitcher then a disservice has been done to offensive team.

Wow. It happens a lot here. Fielder will take advantage of the time out and throw the ball around.

If we go back to the OP, before posters started assuming a relief pitcher was involved, I don't see a drastic difference between that scenario and the one I suggested.

I believe the FED rule is intended to preempt incoming relief pitchers from getting extra throws, not to prevent fielders from "staying loose."

That's a good take on the intent of the rule.

Many times a player will yell at someone in dug out for a ball, never have I had a problem with that, but I don't ever remember a coach coming out for a conference with a ball in hand, (maybe he has and I just don't notice)so I've never made a ruling prohibiting a player from staying loose. I'm just trying to imagine the sitch in my head and determing what could be or would be proper or acceptable interps.

Let's try this:

This will never happen BUT what if....

May 5 you're PU Washington High vs Lincoln High.
7 th inning WH coach comes out for conference tosses ball to F6 who gets in 8-10 throws with F5 during conference. 2 batters later F6 replaces F1 and shuts the door.
Between half inning LH coach asks if it was legal for F6 to be "warming up" on field during conference?

May 28 you're PU, Lincoln High vs Washington High .
7th inning WH coach comes out for conference, tosses ball to F6.

Do you care?

You have no reason to stop it...

But if the coach does this, you have nothing. If one of the kids drops down and acts like a catcher, or one of them starts using a windup motion ... then you have something to stop.

Garth, I've seen it a lot during a new pitcher's warmup. F3 tosses to the infielders. Now, I have not seen it during a mound visit, though. I can't see them getting many throws in during one of those.

Okay. But still, are you going to stop it? What if F4 is destined to come in and pitch after the new F1 faces one batter?

My point, I guess, is that if a fielder isn't announced as the new F1, there's nothing you can do about it.

If a fielder who has taken some throws is belatedly announced as the new F1 by the coach, then you could limit or eliminate his warm-ups if you've the mind to.

Bottomline, I don't think I'm gonna pick that booger. I can't mind read what the coach is going to do, thankfully. So absent an overt announcement like "hey 2nd, warm up a bit before you pitch", i'm going to let it go.

My experience has been that the warm-up tosses occur while the new F1 is warming up. And I have never seen a coach come out with a ball in his hand for this purpose.

Well,
 

I would be willing to bet $1.00 that if someone could get Kyle McNeely, Chairman of the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee, to answer he would say that the FED does not want any second ball on the field during a dead ball situation for warming up any player.

Regards,

No doubt. He was one of those trying to sell it as "safety issue."

Ridiculous.

If it was that big of a safety issue, then why allow it between innings?

BTW, the ignore list does no good if everyone continues to quote these posters....

Sorry Bob... duly noted, will comply.

That was the question I asked. I'm still waiting for an answer other than, "that's different" and "it's traditional."

Let's not hold our collective breaths.

I think the intent is to not delay the game when a pitching change is imminent. Coach comes to the mound tosses the ball to infielders and takes as much time on the mound as the umpire will allow before he brings one of the "tossers" in to pitch. Just like when one is warming up in the bullpen, as soon as it is known a pitching change is coming he needs to stop throwing in the bullpen and get to the mound.

I don't think I have ever seen the coach come out and toss a ball to F3 so he can throw grounders to other infielders to stay loose while coach talks to the pitcher, but I assume it could happen. It happens often that a pitcher leaves the mound, takes another infield position and takes grounders while the other pitcher warms up. F3 is usually throwing grounders only to the former pitcher, unless of course the former pitcher goes to be F3, and then he is the one getting a few catches in and he will throw grounders to all infielders.

While I knew about the 2006 interp, there are very few umpires I know who do and no coaches and I find it easier to just go to the mound when I see a coach throwing a ball to an infielder and say "coach, if you are making a pitching change he needs to come to the mound for warmups" and that generally puts a stop to it. I am not going to stand there watching two infielders throw back and forth for 30 seconds before I go to the mound and make the coach show his cards.

Taking grounders during a pitching change is no more unsafe than taking them every half inning. I see no reason to stop it. If a coach comes out with a ball and tosses to an infielder I will be at the mound when arrives, unless I am on bases, and then I leave it up to my partner.

Great. Now we've got a "Tim" betting on baseball. :rolleyes:

I had a coach in a FED game a few years ago come out after the first half-inning with a fungo bat. I told him to get rid of it. He asked why and I simply told him that there's a rule against it. He didn't believe me. Silly coach.