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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
Why not ... the ruling was supposed to specifically address someone warming up as a pitcher ... not just two guys throwing a ball. If they hadn't inserted it, OOO's would use this ruling to apply to the OP, like you seem to want to.
So what you're saying is a coach can beat this rule as long as he doesn't verbalize his intention.
If a coach brings out a ball for a specific player he probably has a specific reason.
I'm not an OOO but I would be inclined to stop it, or at the very least make it a very quick conference.

Similar but different sitch
As def. coach approaches mound for conference F6 yells to F1 and says"hey Joe, throw me the ball"
F6 and F5 play catch during conference with no apparent direction from coach, now I have nothing.

Last edited by CO ump; Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 11:11am.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO ump
So what you're saying is a coach can beat this rule as long as he doesn't verbalize his intention.
If a coach brings out a ball for a specific player he probably has a specific reason.
I'm not an OOO but I would be inclined to stop it, or at the very least make it a very quick conference.

Let's change the situation (without starting a new thread)"

1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.

Is this okay in your games?

2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.

Is this okay in your games?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:23am
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This is another one of those funky FED rulings that opens a fresh can of worms.

If the coach doesn't verbally indicate that he's giving the kids the ball besause one of them "might be needed to pitch", then I guess you just have two guys throwing a ball around.

It takes two to toss it. Without some verbal indication, how do you know which kid is warming up and which is the surrogate catcher? Aren't they both essentially "warming up"?

Absent the verbal, "Here you go, Lefty. Start warming up to pitch", if no pitching change was made during the visit to the mound, how do you know if one of them was really warming up?

Suppose you let the two kids throw it around, but no pitching change is made at that time. Does this preclude bringing either of the two players in to pitch at some point later in the game?

If not, how would you retroactively go back and tell somebody not to do something they already did two innings ago that is clearly a violation?

Inquiring minds want to know!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Let's change the situation (without starting a new thread)"

1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.
Is this okay in your games?

Is this old F1 or new F1?
If it's new F1 NO unless he's going to forfiet his warm up tosses.
Old F1 is no longer in game and shouldn't be on field but I don't know if I'd say anything or not. It's never happened in a game I've been around and doubt it will. But for the sake of answering the question I'll say no.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F1 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F1.

Is this okay in your games?
The first grounder he throws to F5 is fine, but then the conference is over so he may get one more grounder in while the coach walks off the field.
So I guess the answer is yes it's fine as long as there is no delay of game.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:38am
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Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I don't know what got into my fingers....

I meant F3 as in first baseman not F1.

Let's try again:

1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay in your games?

2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
1. Let's say a pitching change is being made. Coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay in your games?
This happens often. Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
2. Pitching change is not being made, just a conference. Again, coach then tosses ball to F3 who throws "grounders" to F4, F5, and F6 who throw the ball back to F3.

Is this okay?
Don't remember it ever happening, but Yes


Back to OP this is totally a judgement call.
Let's say F6 had been shaken up in previous half inning, got on field late and didn't have chance to test the arm. Coach sees him working the shoulder and comes out for def. conference with ball and tosses to F6. At this point I know this is not a ruse to warm up the next pitcher, no problem.
If F1 is struggling, no one is warming up in bull pen, Coach comes out for conference with ball in hand and tosses to F6, I may be inclined to judge that F6 is warming up, not allowed.
If you don't allow it and your judgement is wrong there is no real harm done.
If you do allow it and indeed F6 is warming up and 2 batters later F6 enters as pitcher then a disservice has been done to offensive team.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 11:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO ump
Don't remember it ever happening, but Yes
Wow. It happens a lot here. Fielder will take advantage of the time out and throw the ball around.

If we go back to the OP, before posters started assuming a relief pitcher was involved, I don't see a drastic difference between that scenario and the one I suggested.

I believe the FED rule is intended to preempt incoming relief pitchers from getting extra throws, not to prevent fielders from "staying loose."
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 12:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Wow. It happens a lot here. Fielder will take advantage of the time out and throw the ball around.

If we go back to the OP, before posters started assuming a relief pitcher was involved, I don't see a drastic difference between that scenario and the one I suggested.

I believe the FED rule is intended to preempt incoming relief pitchers from getting extra throws, not to prevent fielders from "staying loose."
That's a good take on the intent of the rule.

Many times a player will yell at someone in dug out for a ball, never have I had a problem with that, but I don't ever remember a coach coming out for a conference with a ball in hand, (maybe he has and I just don't notice)so I've never made a ruling prohibiting a player from staying loose. I'm just trying to imagine the sitch in my head and determing what could be or would be proper or acceptable interps.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 12:25pm
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Let's try this:

This will never happen BUT what if....

May 5 you're PU Washington High vs Lincoln High.
7 th inning WH coach comes out for conference tosses ball to F6 who gets in 8-10 throws with F5 during conference. 2 batters later F6 replaces F1 and shuts the door.
Between half inning LH coach asks if it was legal for F6 to be "warming up" on field during conference?

May 28 you're PU, Lincoln High vs Washington High .
7th inning WH coach comes out for conference, tosses ball to F6.

Do you care?

Last edited by CO ump; Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 12:28pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 12:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO ump
So what you're saying is a coach can beat this rule as long as he doesn't verbalize his intention.
If a coach brings out a ball for a specific player he probably has a specific reason.
I'm not an OOO but I would be inclined to stop it, or at the very least make it a very quick conference.
You have no reason to stop it...

But if the coach does this, you have nothing. If one of the kids drops down and acts like a catcher, or one of them starts using a windup motion ... then you have something to stop.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 01:03pm
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Garth, I've seen it a lot during a new pitcher's warmup. F3 tosses to the infielders. Now, I have not seen it during a mound visit, though. I can't see them getting many throws in during one of those.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino
Garth, I've seen it a lot during a new pitcher's warmup. F3 tosses to the infielders. Now, I have not seen it during a mound visit, though. I can't see them getting many throws in during one of those.
Okay. But still, are you going to stop it? What if F4 is destined to come in and pitch after the new F1 faces one batter?

My point, I guess, is that if a fielder isn't announced as the new F1, there's nothing you can do about it.

If a fielder who has taken some throws is belatedly announced as the new F1 by the coach, then you could limit or eliminate his warm-ups if you've the mind to.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 02:30pm
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Bottomline, I don't think I'm gonna pick that booger. I can't mind read what the coach is going to do, thankfully. So absent an overt announcement like "hey 2nd, warm up a bit before you pitch", i'm going to let it go.

My experience has been that the warm-up tosses occur while the new F1 is warming up. And I have never seen a coach come out with a ball in his hand for this purpose.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 05:40pm
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Well,

I would be willing to bet $1.00 that if someone could get Kyle McNeely, Chairman of the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee, to answer he would say that the FED does not want any second ball on the field during a dead ball situation for warming up any player.

Regards,
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 23, 2007, 05:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
I would be willing to bet $1.00 that if someone could get Kyle McNeely, Chairman of the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee, to answer he would say that the FED does not want any second ball on the field during a dead ball situation for warming up any player.

Regards,
No doubt. He was one of those trying to sell it as "safety issue."

Ridiculous.
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