LLWS - I see London... I see France

[blueump01]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

No - with no runners it's nothing. The call was corrected. LL misplaced the parentheses in the first writing which gave the impression you have. It was correctd via interpretation in "Fairball" and then corrected at the next printing of the rule book.

8.05 offenses are the same in both LL and the higher levels. The penalties are different. Most folks don't really understands why LL chose to alter the nomenclature instead of just keeping "balk" and listing different penalties.

Rich, I work a lot of LL games. I have to disagree with what you are saying. Where in "Fairball" is this interp?

With that being said, this is an illegal action by the pitcher. This classifies as an Illegal Pitch, ball on batter. What you are suggesting is that runners have to be on for an illegal pitch to be possible. Since when is that a requirement? What I have is the offenses in 8.05 are an Illegal Pitch in baseball (ball on batter), but if runners are on, and it's Jr/Sr/Big League, then I have a balk)

[Dave Reed]

The 2004 version of the Rules Instruction Manual says in reference to 8.05 (Majors and Minors, but not Junior and up)
"With no runner on base you only call an illegal pitch if (e) and/or (g) are committed. Otherwise, call nothing with no runners on base at any level of play."

(e) refers to a quick pitch.
(g) refers to making a motion to pitch while not touching the rubber.

Obviously these are infractions which tend to deceive the batter.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by blueump01

Rich, I work a lot of LL games. I have to disagree with what you are saying.

Rich is probably the only person I wouldn't argue Little League with.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by blueump01

Rich, I work a lot of LL games. I have to disagree with what you are saying. Where in "Fairball" is this interp?

With that being said, this is an illegal action by the pitcher. This classifies as an Illegal Pitch, ball on batter. What you are suggesting is that runners have to be on for an illegal pitch to be possible. Since when is that a requirement? What I have is the offenses in 8.05 are an Illegal Pitch in baseball (ball on batter), but if runners are on, and it's Jr/Sr/Big League, then I have a balk)

It is in the March 03 issue of "Fairball" Page 3, bottom of the second column.

The rule used to read:

An illegal pitch (A balk in Junior/Senior/Big League baseball when a runner or runners are on base) is when -

It was corrected to read:

An illegal pitch (A balk in Junior/Senior/Big League baseball) when a runner or runners are on base is when -

The "old" way had the "runners on base" as part of the Jr/Sr/Big parenthetical phrase. The new way placed it in the body of the rule.

[blueump01]

Rich, thank you.

Anyhow, any idea why 8.01d hasn't been corrected?

"If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch wiith the bases unoccupoed, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base..."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by blueump01

Rich, thank you.

Anyhow, any idea why 8.01d hasn't been corrected?

"If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch wiith the bases unoccupoed, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base..."

I can't speak for LL on this, but in OBR, "Illegal Pitch" is referring specifically to the defined term -- a quick pitch or a pitch while not in contact with the rubber. Other actions that might be illegal and might be pitches are not "Illegal Pitches" for this rule.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by blueump01

Rich, thank you.

Anyhow, any idea why 8.01d hasn't been corrected?

"If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch wiith the bases unoccupoed, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base..."

Because it's referring to the real illegal pitches - not in contact and quick.

That's one of the reasons I said:

Most folks don't really understands why LL chose to alter the nomenclature instead of just keeping "balk" and listing different penalties.

The nomenclature change just confuses everything.