It's that time of year again - LLWS
 

I do not know if any of you are watching the LL Regionals on ESPN but it seems each PU's zone is bigger then the next.

I am curretnly watching the West Regional Final between Arizona and Cal and the PU's zone is as BIG as I have ever seen. He is calling pitches at least a foot outside. How did this guy get a final. If this were the regular season my gut is that the coaches would be all over this guy.

I have not seen all the Regionals, but the one's I have seen thus far the PU's performances have not been that good compared to last year.

I have seen the New Mexico Texas Final and now the Arizona Cal Final. Both Pu's were simply terrible. These F1's at this level do not need any help.

Ok let's start the critiquing.

Pete Booth

As we have discovered, year after year, ability is a plus, but not a requirement.

It's too bad if it's like you say. During the last two years the LLWS showed some impressive improvement over the past.

I've been more concerned with the height of his zone than I have the width. He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high. I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike - those I had a problem with. When you go big, the zone still has to be hittable - those pitches were not.

From my experience with rec league - he probably doesn't get much chirping during the season. The coaches I have run into are glad to see strikes called. It's the clueless parents that yell "that was outside" but then yell "Good pitch, Johnny" when their kid throws it in the same spot.

Anyone check out the LF umpire in the Northeast regional? Sweet Santa Claus beard!

He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high.
The LL strike zone is armpits to the top of the knees so you're going to see higher pitches called strikes.


I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike

Are you sure you typed what you meant? It touched the zone and you think it wasn't hittable and not a strike?

LL catchers tend to set up way too deep which makes it look worse if you're looking at where he caught it.

My personal favorite is the big "softball" strike mechanic. :rolleyes:

The top of the Little League strike zone is at the armpit.

Even so, Jim, if an umpire calls it that high he's doing the game a disservice.


Tim.

I was eight rows back, dead center, and he wasn't call that far off the dish. Some were questionable, to be sure, but not that bad. His position was rock solid, and timing was right on.

Anyone else catch him changing from a HSM to a traditional mask, and then back during the game? That was odd.

Bullsh!t. It is what it is. I don't throw away strikes at any level anymore.

I'll be visiting Williamsport during the LLWS. Having grown up an hour from there, I've never been to Williamsport, but this year a good friend is working the LLWS. If he's working the game you're watching, you won't be making fun of him. He works college and HS baseball along with adult ball and LL.

I just finished working my first LL Regional (Seniors, Central Region) and I had a great time. I was DQed from the finals because my state was still alive, but worked a plate on a semifinal game. Plenty of good umpires there.

Ohio and Indiana
 

I watched the Ohio and Indiana game and during the rundown between 1st and 2nd there was a train wreck but the kid with the ball never touched the runner. They collided and the F3 held on to the ball in his glove, but he never touches the runner. ESPN showed the collision from two angles and it was a clear miss and the BU calls him out. Everyone gets up and runs off the field. The PU points to the plate as the lead runner crosses it and yells count the run.

Sorry to have upset you, Rich, but I don't know any decent umpire that calls a strike at the armpits. That includes the LLWS. If you want to define bull$hit, start with the LL definition of the strike zone.



Tim.

This year's LLWS will be very, very interesting for me. We had a guy join our association (High school, American Legion, AAU...in otherwords a "big boy" association) five years ago or so. His only experience at that time was pretty much LL. He joined us with many of the "LL problems" we talk about on this board.

We trained him and worked with him and he has become a very, very good high school umpire, with a very good zone, good timing, good mechanics, etc. He has worked deep into the state HS playoffs.

Anyways, this umpire has never stopped working LL...despite working a full HS schedule. This year he was picked for the LLWS in Williamsport. I've teased him a little (not about being selected...but about using "good" mechanics while there!).

So, I hope he goes there and does a great job. Frankly, without even knowing anything about the other umpires selected to go to Williamsport...I am hoping he goes and stands out from the crowd (for all the right reasons!). And frankly, I think he will! I can't wait to watch him on a plate game. This ought to be fun.

You haven't worked a little boy game in a while, then. Without calling from the armpits to the knees the strike zone would be almost nonexistent.

BTW, the pro rulebook USED to define a strike in exactly this way.

Jim I did not watch all the Regional finals. I saw 3 Regional finals.

New Mexico / Texas; Indiana / Ohio; and last night Arizona / Cal

The PU's zone in the aforementioned games was BIG. The biggest was in the Arizona / Cal game where the PU was calling pitches approx 8 -12 inches outisde a strike. The ESPN commentators had a tough time in saying "that was borderline" At least from my viewpoint the zone was a large as I have seen in quite some time.

Perhaps with LL instituting a Pitch count rule, the PU's at the Regionals were instructed to be as LIBERAL as possible.

We will have to wait and see how the zone looks come the LLWS but compared to the last year, the zone has indeed been very very liberal and as mentioned perhaps the new pitch count rule has something to do with it.

Pete Booth

Watched all Regionals. Saw consistency at the plate in each game.

Santa never missed a call either. I visited one N.E. Regional, he was at 1st. Yep, he has a beard and a big belly. So what. He didn't miss a call that game either.

Only crap I saw was the 'softball strike mechanic'. Yuk.

It gets called that way around here.

The zone would be way too small if you didn't - not very many kid pitchers could hit it.

The batters swing at the high pitfch anyway so you might as well call it a strike.

No that was not exactly what I meant. It was to be taken in context with the wide zone comment. The breaking balls were outside and tailed farther outside -didn't appear hittable.

Armpits I call in "little boy ball" - 9-10 year olds - You have to to get strikes called and "make them swing the bat." With 12 year olds that have made it through states, they can pitch better than most others, I don't think armpits is needed. High strikes (middle to top of the letters) I can agree with. I called games in the Dizzie Dean World Series and I did not give them the arm pit strike - they don't need it once they get to this level of play. As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't give a 12 year old that strike anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting LL in anyway. This is strickly a comment based on one game and the PU in that game. His timing was very good, he had good position, his strike mechanic I didn't like and I thought his zone was too big. I have not insulted him or anyone else. I don't think this thread was even intended to insult LL.

About the mask thing - I was hoping someone could tell me why he did that. I saw it, but had stepped away from the TV, so I didn't know if something happened to his bucket or if he was just trying out a mask.

We should compare notes, then. One of my regular college partners (like I mentioned above) is also working.

It's tough criticizing the strike zone if you never work on the small diamond. Catchers sit back further and some pitches look low that are definitely strikes. So, do you call those strikes or do you pass on them cause you know Internet umpires everywhere will make fun of them for calling "low" strikes?

It's likely I'll never have to worry about this. I have little desire to be on this stage, much preferring to work towards a Junior (Taylor, MI) and Senior (Bangor, ME) level World Series, played on the big diamond.

"About the mask thing - I was hoping someone could tell me why he did that. I saw it, but had stepped away from the TV, so I didn't know if something happened to his bucket or if he was just trying out a mask."

Likely the 'TV mask'. ESPN wires up a mask at each location (Used to be +POS SUL's).

I think he had a malfunction. It looked like he went over to a dugout with his mask in-hand. I had the volume turned off because I was on the phone talking to a buddy about the game and then suddenly he appeared with the new mask and his HSM was back the next inning. That's the conclusion I came to.

Did you see the woman behind the plate during the Southern regional? The game was way too big for her. She called a foul tip on a foul ball with a runner coming to the plate and I think she closed her eyes on a pitch because the kid swung and she called it a ball. The big one (IMO) was when they made the kid go back after leaving early twice. His coach came and talked to her about it and she said (and I paraphrase) - He's leaving early coach. He did it in the game I had you guys earlier and I didn't call it. I'm like YIKES! Do you realize you are MIC'd?

I just thought she was prepared for the game.

I'm curious: If meritorious performance isn't the main reason for selection, why do umpires act like it's a feather in their caps when they're chosen?

How could umpires for tournaments like this POSSIBLY be chosen on umpiring ability when the selection is made without ever seeing the umpire? And if you think Williamsport (or even the regions) can see every umpire that applies, you're delusional.

Large number of applications, small number of selections -- to answer your question. And once I was selected for a regional, it was all about showing that my umpiring was worthy of my selection.

Regional people...
 

IE; Regional Assignors and Directors feel that assigning Regional games is a reward to volunteer Umpires.

Rich is correct, most appointments are made without ever seeing the Umpire perform. Decision is based mostly on:

1) what you put in your resume
2) any input from people they trust that have seen your work
3) need vs experience volume [the greater your volume of experience, the more appealing you become thus the need for your attendance is increased - or something like that -].

In the words of one Regional Assignor: [paraphrase] a Regional assignment is mostly made without ever seeing the applicant work. It comes down to what you put in your resume.

I would prefer at least a video of an applicant working each position along with the resume. References are hit or miss, unless I know the reference personally.

IMO, there needs to be some reward for Volunteer umpires no matter how good or bad if the Philosohpy "LL is for Volunteers" truly applies. There are many many Regular season games to cover before the Regionals even begin.

If you have volunteers that have been doing many games all year long and then all of a sudden "bring in the heavy-weighs" come Tournament time how do you expect any LL organization to continue to recruit Volunteer Umpires.

IMO, it's TV that is the problem. In the past the only game shown on TV was the final game. Then ESPN came along and started televising the Regional Finals. Now they televise for the most part all the Regional games.

Unfortunately LL has "sold out to the almighty dollar" and they will always have umpires available for the regionals / LLWS. They couldn't give a rat's you know what about the regular season.


Pete Booth

Pete,

While this would be admirable, it simply isn't practical for most Little Leagues to go in this direction.

In my district, we have local league umpires and district umpires. In order to work the tournaments, you must be chosen to be on the district staff. It's called quality control -- our district UIC is an experienced HS/college umpire and we don't put anyone on the field that would embarrass us (or the umpire would embarrass himself).

I volunteer. Not for a lot of league play -- that's where younger and less experienced umpires cut their teeth -- but I volunteer come tournament time. I don't consider it skimming the gravy off the top, either. Those games aren't always good and those kids in the tourneys deserve a decent level of officiating.

We should compare notes...I'll never have to worry, either. I haven't worked on a 60-foot field since I was 15 years old.

I hear this argument about all post season play opportunities. Horse pucky!

Post season has the best teams, the best players, the best coaches. They didn't get to post season becuase they played the most games or had perfect attendance or were really nice guys. They earned their way there by their performance on the field. They deserve umpires who did likewise.

If you need to reward somebody for covering games, give him a gift certificate for dinner, a good citizenship award, or buy him a watch.

Mr. B:

I agree with almost all you said above. I do, however, find it disingenuous if an umpire who didn't work in the league takes a post-season assignment and says he earned it for his on-field performance.

The best teams don't get to sit out the league schedule and proceed straight to the post-season based on their outstanding performance in another league or during prior seasons. Umpires shouldn't either.

If I have a crew of umpires from which to choose rated 1 (worst) through 10 (best), I do a balancing act on the issue. Based on how much he worked and his performance, an umpire can elevate his consideration for post-season play by one or two spots. So, an 8 could surpass a 10, but a 7 likely could not.

Big-boy-ball sees it differently, apparently, than youth. Absent extraordinary circumstances, neither MLB, any level of affiliated MiLB, nor the NCAA (I, II, or III) chooses umpires who didn't work the league for post-season play.

I understand your point; I just don't subscribe to it completely.

I've re-read my post and I cannot find where I suggested that this would be the case. I don't know what gave you that idea.

I saw a lilte of a game the other nite--might of been GA ver AL? the umps were in RED shirts (err) and i couldnt' stand the PUs lowzone...pitches literary kicking up a CLOUD of dust at the batters' feet were STRIKES.

is that normal for LL?

The shirts were most likely picked by the TD and given to the "blues".

The catcher's set up further back in "small ball" so a pitch that hit the ground when the catcher caught it could have very well been at the knees or higher when it crossed the plate.

hmm. well ok i deffer to those who know--i like the HIGH strike but i just can not get my mind around calling dustcloud pitches STRIKES at this level.....!

Yeah, the red shirts along with the red shirts of both teams looked great. ;)

LL Regionals and LLWS
 

Agree on the Red. Tim cured me of Red Fever (stayin alive!:D) a few months ago.

MD v PA, LL Regional @ Bristol:
Anyone see this one? The HPU's call for the called strike were a bit, ..... long.
Out of position when making calls at home.
"DEADBALL - DEADBALL - DEADBALL" on each HBP.


:cool:

I saw the game as well Richon. I can't even watch the LLWS anymore because of the umpiring. It just bothers me too much. I can still manage to watch NCAA softball finals, but thats mainly because of the CF camera angle on the pitcher... those umpires are just as annoying.

The guy that had the plate tonight was over the top...

We have a saying in this part of the country, "Red is Dead."

unfortunately
 

around here red is still in use and not just for LL/Small Diamond.

Saw some Legion guys (I think they were Hartford Board) with Red jerseys on a 17U game once or twice.:eek:

When I was the UIC for our LL district and we hosted district and sectional games, we used the umpires that were highly recommend that worked during the regular season. I did evaluate umpires during the regular season and also received recommendations from the various leagues within the district. These are the umpires that should get 1st shot at working the tournament before bringing in other umpires who have not worked the regular season (at least on the small diamond).

On a different subject matter regarding LL umpires, there is an umpire who has volunteered his time for 48 years and is currently 87 years old. He is still umpiring LL. I have tried to get this man recognized by LL at the LLWS.
They refuse to do it. They state that he must be nominated for recognition by the local district administrator. This is ridiculos. Here you have a man who volunteers his time for over 48 years, and you have to go thru all the red tape just to get recognition. Plus he is probably the oldest umpire in LL. This man still works the district tournament, but only the bases since his back doesn't allow his to work the plate, and the regular season. I sent a copyof an interview a local Chicago TV station did on this umpire, with the hopes that maybe LL will recognize this man at the LLWS. Well I haven't heard from LL as to whether they are going to recognize him.

How?
 

Whitehat, when you say you tried to have him reconized, how so?

Did you speak with the Reginal Director? How about the Regional UIC or Assignor? Someone there must have heard of his work before now.

To get to the skinny, you need some horsepower to cut thru the dirt. You won't reach anyone of consequence until you get some help from people they will listen to.

Good Luck

I understand your pain. LL is a very difficult organization to navigate at times. What I have found is that it's best to utilize the DA (District Administrator) up front, as that person MUST sign off before the regional admin will sign off.

It will never get to Andy K without this happening (He will kick it right back down through region to district). If the DA refuses to sign off then your pretty much out of luck unless you have some way of getting to Andy K.

Been there, kinda
 

I'll betcha I have done more small-ball games than most anyone in our august body of posters.

I have worked the Bristol ER, with an asterisk--it was in consolation games, back before there was pool play. No big deal. Have done four other ER tourneys, but in softball.

I, too, have a difficult time watching these games. Too many umps are using my regular-season li'l-squirt strike zone.

Hey, I'll give a LL tourney pitcher up to mid-stomach. Occasionally, when F2 grabs a curve with his fingers pointing down, I'll strike it. A nice couple of inches on the outside corner for a c*ckshot? Sure. OTOH, the plate guy I saw last week in Bristol balled 95% of curveballs he saw, and I had a vantage point in the VIP area behind the plate.

The mechanics--especially when guys use the same basic stuff for swinging and called strikes--drive me crazy.

I saw "Santa" in person at a CT-ME game. DISCLAIMER: I'm sure this old salt has been umpiring in East Petunia for 48 years, and that he is one swell guy.

BUT: This person has no business umpiring ANY baseball game at ANY level. The poor soul (U2 that night) had the mobility of a phone booth. He could NOT get into the infield (as they make these guys do) on ANY batted ball. He could BARELY bend over to adjust a base. PLUS, he almost got decapitated by a soft liner when he was in Deep C. Plus, the beard alone shows you how "dedicated" an umpire Santy was.

Before you small-ballers pillory me, I am more worried about Mr. Kringle's safety than anything else. But, I've said this before: Kids and coaches work too hard to get to this level of play to have Uncle Bumps waddling around on the field of play--even on a foul line.

A good bud (and excellent, all-level official) once worked in Bristol. He told me that out of the dozen or so umps there, only two or three "got it."

I know how to fix the regional umpiring deal, at least in 12U boys. But I'm not telling anyone for free. And W-port will never pay me for this, or for that matter listen to a word I have to say.

The best LL umps, IMHO, also do at least HS varsity and Legion ball.

As the WS unfolds, the embarrassment continues.

Ace

Ace
 

Doc will listen, no? He seems reasonable.
I dont know Frank too much and therefore, don't know his clout.

I would think one of those guys would have enough politics to get to Konyar. Or at least the LL Congress which won't convene for another two years.

-- Rob

Did anyone else think the PU in the Texas/Minnesota game had a very annoying strike call, as well as annoying foul and ball calls? It was really annoying my wife. It was comical to listen to her complain about it.