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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitump56
Originally Posted by fitump56
No view = ask partner.



He clearly said he had "no view" of the play.

No view = ask partner. I don't see why not.
Because your partner has a job to do on this play, and it's not to provide backup to you ... it's to watch the base-touch on the other runner and prepare for a possible play there.

If partner saw anything he could add to your call, then he wasn't doing his job. Don't know about you, but I make the assumption that my partner is doing his job. Bringing this one to him is frankly an insult to his abilities, and puts doubt into everyone else's minds about YOUR abilities. Stick with the call on this one.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 03:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitump56
Originally Posted by fitump56
No view = ask partner.



He clearly said he had "no view" of the play.

No view = ask partner. I don't see why not.
He did have a view of the play - he just didn't see the ball - if the fielder dropped in transfer how could the coach see that anyway - he's 100 feet away.

Ignore the coach and make the call. Bob has the right viewpoint as far as terminology.

As far as the second part of the post above, nothing needs to be said as it makes no sense at all.

Bottomline, its not my job to call strikes 90 feet away and its not PU's job to make a call at second base that he wasn't looking at anyway.

Thanks
David
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 04:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Exactly!!

Especially on a steal, if I have any doubt as to where the ball is, I immediately yell, "Show me the ball!!". If the defence raises their glove with the ball then I have an out otherwise save.

The beauty of this is that it tells both benches that I saw the play and have an out but only if the defensive player maintained control of the ball.
So ... you guys are going to start giving fielders direction about showing you the ball when they are in the middle of trying to initiate another play? Egads, surely not. On one like this, the umpire merely needs to wait.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 04:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG
Hogwash. You still can't see through a player regardless of shallow B vs deep C (assuming U2 would be in deep C vs. deep B).
The only person that said anything about seeing through a player was you. In four man, you are naturally closer or able to get a better angle. It doesn't matter whether you're in B or C. It may have made a difference. I would like to think you would have gotten the view needed in the C position, instead of B, in two man though.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
So ... you guys are going to start giving fielders direction about showing you the ball when they are in the middle of trying to initiate another play? Egads, surely not. On one like this, the umpire merely needs to wait.
We're arguing the same point.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 05:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp
We're arguing the same point.
I suppose you forgot the four little magic words. Read post #22 for a refresher.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 08:50pm
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I agree with those who state that working in 'C' in this situation gives you better angles. It also gives you more options for adjustment for plays like this where you get screened.

As far as the pick off at 1b, you can quickly gain 2 or 3 steps moving toward the working area behind the mound and get a very good angle toward 1st.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 09:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
I suppose you forgot the four little magic words. Read post #22 for a refresher.
PWL, I know exactly what I wrote. Tell me where I'm incorrect.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 10:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp
PWL, I know exactly what I wrote. Tell me where I'm incorrect.
Who is PWL? The only, and I repeat only time, I would use the magic words is when there is a tag play and I need the fielder to bring his glove up to show he has possession of the ball. Haven't had to use them as my timing and eyesight hasn't failed me yet.

What do the words, "Show me the ball" have to do with a catch and voluntary release. They mean the fielder has possession or not. Sounds as if Tuss got the call right if you don't see a voluntary release. Coaches want the call to go in their favor. They lost an out. What else do expect them to do?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 11:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino
As far as the pick off at 1b, you can quickly gain 2 or 3 steps moving toward the working area behind the mound and get a very good angle toward 1st.
You can move 2-3 steps toward 1B on a pickoff? D*mn the pickoff moves are slow in your area...
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 08:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
So ... you guys are going to start giving fielders direction about showing you the ball when they are in the middle of trying to initiate another play? Egads, surely not. On one like this, the umpire merely needs to wait.
Obviously, I wait until the play is over before asking for the ball. When I said immediately, I implied immediately after the play is over. If F4 jumps up and then throws the ball somewhere else, I don't need to ask for the ball now do I??

You ask for the ball when the play has ended and you're not sure where the ball is.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 09:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Obviously, I wait until the play is over before asking for the ball. When I said immediately, I implied immediately after the play is over. If F4 jumps up and then throws the ball somewhere else, I don't need to ask for the ball now do I??

You ask for the ball when the play has ended and you're not sure where the ball is.
So what in the world does this have to do with the OP then?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 09:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
So what in the world does this have to do with the OP then?
With respect to asking to see the ball, I was responding to another post.

In the OP, I think everyone agrees that you need to wait a couple of seconds to verify where the ball is and since the umpire SAW the ball rolling on the ground this was an easy call.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG
You can move 2-3 steps toward 1B on a pickoff? D*mn the pickoff moves are slow in your area...
They aren't big steps!!! Don't you try to gain a little ground on pick-offs? Once you read the F1's move toward first you can get at least one good step toward the 45 foot line to get a better angle to 1st.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 05:28pm
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With the play described in the OP, i.e., a tag being made at 2B and a subsequent attempt to throw home to retire R3, I would be looking, to an extent, to see if the fielder that applied the tag was looking more like he was actually making the throw home (ball lost on transfer), or if he started coming up to throw and then went back for the ball (ball lost on the tag). This motion is something that you can read even if the fielder has blocked your exact view of the baseball. It is not the only evidence I would consider, but it is a piece of the equation.
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