dropped third strike- new mechanic?
 

While working an adult league game tonight with the former rules interpreter of my college association. He mentioned that in the minor leagues now they want the PU on a dropped third strike to say "strike three- balls live" or something to that effect. He mentioned this was started because of the playoff situation a few years ago on the controversial dropped third strike.

Has anyone heard this? Those with the minor league contacts could you possibly check on this for me?

Strike and balls in the same sentence. YGTBKMOA. :rolleyes: :)

can someone tell me how this ignore thing works?

It's "Strike three - no catch!" while signaling the strike followed by the safe signal is the mechanic taught by both schools and PBUC.

Some have used "Strike three - balls down", which could easily lead confusion on a pitch (Unlike fly ball a catch / no catch situation)

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.

I have a question on this regarding dropped third strike.

It has been said it is an advanced mechanic, but as BU, should you confirm a check swing before being asked by PU during any continuous action?

As BU I will make a call on a half-swing without being asked only when:

1. PU does not immediately say he went, and
2. he went, and
3. he can run to 1B (strike 3 with 1B not occupied or 2 outs).

If any of these conditions is not met, I wait until PU asks me.

Me, too, but I add:

4. We've discussed it in pre-game.

As PU, I'll ask BU without me beign asked by F2 or the coach on any such situation.

As taught to this year's crop of new MiLB umpires:

Give the strike signal to the side, even if using the hammer for normal strike calls, to avoid the appearance of an out signal.

Then, while giving the safe signal, use the verbal, "No catch."

However, in practice, several new MiLB umpires have explained that most times the catcher has tagged the batter before the umpire can give the "no catch" mechanic. In that case, they simply go from the strike mechanic to the out mechanic.

This mechanic is many years old now. It was being taught in the pro schools starting about 7 or 8 years ago or so. Immediately upon seeing it for the first time at a AAA Pawtucket Red Sox game, I incorporated it into my own mechanics. It works quite well, but Garth is right. The vast majority of the time you won't get to use it because the play will be over before you have the chance. It took a long time between when I decided to use the mechanic, to when I actually got to use it.

Another thing that complicates this mechanic is that, quite often, you are opening the gate to let the catcher by on a passed ball. You also have to make sure you are clear of the throwing lane from the catcher to first base. That can delay the mechanic.

I also think it is far preferrable to the old mechanic that was taught years ago -- the, "unfinished out," signal. Essentially, you started an out signal with your hand going up, but stopped and held it unfinished without bringing down the hammer until after the out was recorded. Although that worked just fine too, there is something about the new mechanic that looks polished and proper.

I can say conclusively...that it is at least 10 years old.

Thanks for pointing out that this is not a new mechanic. I attended Evan's in '04 and did not recall this mechanic. Things do take some time to get into this part of PA.

Appreciate the input.

Accordiong to PBUC, the relatively new part is using the point to the side for the third strike, regardless of how one signals strikes one and two. When first introduced, using the hammer for the third strike was appropriate...no longer. It's too easy to confuse the strike sign with an out sign.

This came about after Doug Eddings' difficulties in the ALCS a couple years back.

Ah, I didn't think about that. I always pointed to the side for my strike mechanic. I always hated the hammer because it does look too much like an out call. I was ahead of my time. :D

Jim, that is exactly why I do not hammer on strikes also.
 

Several of my partners this past high school season hammered and one of my evaluators suggested that I use the hammer even though he doesn't. For some reason he thinks my voice, presence, etc. needs the hammer. I tried it one game but I am old school and went back to pointing for strikes one and two and then hammering/pulling the bow for called strike three. I simply say strike three without any extra emphasis and then hold up the hammer and say batter's out except on a swinging strike three that is dropped then I say strike three without any visual signal at all until there is a tag or a throw then I say in command voice "batter's out" and hold out hammer for a tag. I say nothing more than the "strike three" for a dropped third strike on throw to first unless base umpire does not signal-it sometimes does happen- then I say batter's out and hammer for the throw beating the runner.

Guys,
It's not that hard. There is only ONE way to correctly signal a third strike not leagally caught. It's been this way for atleast the last 10 years and hasn't changed - unless ofcourse you umpire at the MLB level where they make up their own mechanics according to personal style.

As Garth already explained, the strike three mechanic is pointed out to the side while verbally saying "strike 3". The mechanic is held out to the side until the catcher and/or batter make some type of movement. If needed, you can say "no catch" and give the safe mechanic to force the catcher to make a tag or throw as well as let the batter know that he is not yet out.

This is the ONLY correct mechanic taught and used at pro schools. You can do it other ways, but it will not be the correct way. The reason this gets screwed up is because people watch MLB guys (ie Doug Eddidngs) use their senseless, personlized mechanics that cause big problems. By the way, Eddings no longer does that horsesh!t karate chop to the side mechanic - somebody must have informed him that it is totally useless. Now if only they would tell Hunter Wendlestat the same thing (he does another f*ck*d hand raising mechanic like his old man used to do).

Now that we all can AGREE what the right way is, this thread can now be closed. Ofcourse, I'm sure it will still continue because people post "but I was told to do this...." or "I was taught this...." or "I think it should be....

You seem to be responding to MajorDave, and I don't see where anything he said contradicts your explanation.

We were talking about the no-catch mechanic being used for uncaught third strikes. You say it is a choice. Perhaps it has changed, but it wasn't a choice 7 or 8 years ago -- it was a required mechanic under the proper circumstances.

Garth added that the PBUC requires the uncaught third strike signal to be to the side rather than the hammer before the no-catch signal is made, which makes perfect sense. The hammer can be confused with an out mechanic.

I said it wasn't something I had ever thought about because I always signaled a strike to the side -- never liked the hammer.

MajorDave agreed and said he's never liked the hammer either.

So, unless I'm missing something, I don't see the point of your post. We were all in agreement, and then you stepped in implying there was some disagreement.

So, UES, what have I missed?

You didn't miss anything. I just can't understand why such a simple, straight forward mechanic, takes up 2 pages of posts. The only people who complicate this mechanic are certain MLB umpires... who because of personal style, choose to screw things up.

There are two pages on this topic because who we have coming here to learn are mostly umpires of amateur games. Most have not gone to pro school. Most don't even know a pro umpire to answer their questions. Not everyone has heard of this mechanic, and anything they have heard has been through the grapevine and has gone through so many people that it gets changed over time. By the time if filters down to them it doesn't quite resemble the original instruction.

Well, Well, Well
 

It's not that hard to disagree. You're saying the hammer hasn't been taught as a strike three signal in PRO school over the last ten years. Your saying umpires have been taught to say, "strike 3," for the past ten years. Have you been going back every year for additional instruction? I remember being told not to call out the numbers a while back. The last time I checked, its okay to call out the numbers again. I rather save my voice. I remember being taught to hammer by pro instructors. Funny they didn't mention it was ok to use the "pointed out to the side" strike 3 signal. They didn't want us using it for strikes one or two either. They were more interested in uniformity.

Few of us have gone to a real pro school. But my professional instructor presented a choice to signal strikes with the fisted hammer or a point to the side {thumb down}. Strike three was ours, catch or no catch. The advice was given to use "whatever works for you." Very few have mentioned your required advanced pro school mechanic for a strike 3, not caught prior to the WS. This safe signal, verbal "no-catch" has been discussed and adopted by many on this website. Did anyone mention the mandatory prerequisite, "pointed out to the side?" Someone may have said it, but they didn't place as much emphasis on it as you have. Two very different approved PRO mechanics, not one. So much for uniformity.

Well, Well, Well

You can prefer whatever mechanic you want but you will not only look like a tool for hammering a strike three not legally caught, but you will find yourself having to explain your screwed mechanic to Mr Skipper when he asks you why you SIGNALED his batter out (by hammering strike 3) while at the same time verbally saying he's not out (by saying no catch and giving a safe mechanic). Perhaps you went to the Doug Eddings School of Umpiring????

Come on SA Ump, you have to admit that hammering a dropped third strike and then following it up with a safe mechanic looks pretty f*cked up :eek:

Strike! Safe? Out!
 

I agree that some idiot placed a sharp curve along a straight road. {bad analogy?}
I hate giving the safe part when the safe or out is still in doubt.
The B/R is tagged-out most of the time and an umpire wants to insert a safe signal here. Whoa, makes no sense.
I much prefer repeating "no catch" while pointing to the ground waiting for someone to "get up" and do something.
I swear that was the pro mechanic a short time ago for a fair fly ball, not caught.
I am already comfortable with the hammer and coaches don't bother me much.
I can't wait for anything else that may filter down to replace this asap.

Safe and out in the same sentence. YGTBKM. :rolleyes: :eek: :)