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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 05:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitump56
It's a degrading term used by those who wish to make fun of, and by doing so think they believe elevates themselves, umpires who do not meet some moving target of "professionalism". In short, it's one thing for sure.

It labels the user of the term, usually an experienced umpire who ought to know better than to treat another Blue such a despicable way, as a full time hypocrite.
Thanks for putting this so succinctly. this should be a sticky.............
  #47 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 06:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?
I have to admit, I'd call the runner safe in this situation if I'm picturing the play correctly. It's a great baseball play to slide to the back of the base to avoid the tag.
  #48 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 06:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ray
Thanks for putting this so succinctly. this should be a sticky.............
Just cause it made you sticky doesn't mean it should be made a sticky.
  #49 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 07:18pm
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In situations like the one you describe Garth, where I THINK I saw the foot hit the bag first, I'm calling the kid out anyway. When the tag is there, I have to KNOW that the kid was safe. In this situation, the runner is OUT until otherwise proven, 100%, to be safe.
  #50 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 07:28pm
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In Garth's situation, I'm calling that runner safe. That happens a lot as the skill level of the players increases. The ball beating the runner means that F2 did his job, now the player making the tag has to do his, and the runners job is to find the open lane to the base while avoiding the tag.

I have called plays like this, and it causes much commotion on the defensive side. The coach always claims there was NO WAY that runner could be safe, and I explain the tag was missed, plain and simple.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 09:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rei
I totally agree with this. I detest seeing the term "smitty".

I prefer "weaker umpire".
I've been a "smitty" myself! I held my indicator (not clicker) in my right hand and wore a white shirt under my blue. I work damn hard to get better and get it right. It takes a bigger man to pull the guy aside, like many did for me, and tell them the correct way to do things!
  #52 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 10:13pm
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If I "think" I saw the runner in GarthB's play touch the base a microsecond before the tag, I'd call him out. If I "know" I did, safe is the call.


quiz II:

R1, one out. Batter singles to right center, R1 touches 2nd and heads for third, F8's throw goes there too. On the throw, B/R heads for 2nd.

F8's throw beats the head-first sliding runner by a narrow margin, and F5 lays down a tag on R1, then throws to 2nd in an attempt to get B/R advancing there. Everyone in the park "saw" F5 tag R1--everyone but you, the PU, who had a perfect angle and who saw him tag the dirt inches in front of R1's hand, then throw to 2nd before R1 could slide into the tag.

Your call?
  #53 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Quiz:

R2 stealing third, F2 fires down. F5 receives ball before R2 begins head first slide. F5 lays glove down six inches on 2nd base side of the bag. Everyone, including his coach see R2 slides into the tag clearly before the bag, but you, and only you, think that you saw his right hand touch the bag a micro-second before his left hand touched the glove.

Your call?
Micro-second my 8ss. I have an easy OUT call. I am not going to let the right half overule the left half.

Last edited by DG; Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:42pm.
  #54 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 10:41pm
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkumpire
56,

Please give us more details, like when and where did you see this?

I have worked with hundreds of college umpires, professional umpires, and ex-professional umpires. I have seen people kick dirt off covered bases with a foot, I have never seen an umpire of that caliber brush or clean off a pitcher's plate, or brush off a base.

I admit I did clean off a pitcher's plate once, with my foot, after a pitcher asked me to. It was a 14 yr. old kid game. I beg forgiveness......

I have seen tons of less-experienced umpires and "sm*****s" brush off pitcher's plates and bases. Some of them are SB guys, they can be excused for being from the DARK SIDE.
I do alot of softball. I guess thats why im a smitty.
  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 11:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEohioref
I do alot of softball. I guess thats why im a smitty.
I just think you're a sports official.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 11:17pm
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Originally Posted by fitump56
I find the word "Smitty" like any perjorative term. It's an attempt to lower another person's public image in order to raise your own. Worse than "rat", these are our brothers in Blue you try to demean.

Like digging a hole then shoving a person into it, then proclaiming how "tall" you are. It's total BS.

As I have said before, using terms which degrade others only, in the end, degrades the user.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino
Fitty, consider yourself 'degraded', you 'dufus'......Just kidding, don't lose your sense of humor!!!!!
When "Smitty" is used in fun, that's one thing Bob, but this forum is chock full of the use of that term in a direct attempt to insult.
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Last edited by fitump56; Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:24pm.
  #57 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 17, 2007, 11:21pm
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Originally Posted by fitump56
It's a degrading term used by those who wish to make fun of other sports officials, and by doing so believe it elevates themselves, umpires who do not meet some moving target of "professionalism". In short, it's one thing for certain.

It labels the user of the term, usually an experienced umpire who ought to know better than to treat another Blue in such a despicable way, as a full time hypocrite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ray
Thanks for putting this so succinctly. this should be a sticky.............
Small bow back to you, Ray.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 18, 2007, 01:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Mueller
And why praytell would you make a call contrary to what you saw?
That indeed would be a smittyism
Because the *right* call is the call obvious to everyone. If the whole world sees an out, by golly it's an out. What kind of an umpire would say that it wasn't? Our very jobs are to ensure that one team does not gain an unfair advantage not intended by the rules. It isn't about microscoping and minutiae.

It's not a Smittyism, it's advanced umpiring. It's how such concepts like the phantom tag play and the neighborhood play came to be -- two techniques we see employed by the big boys in MLB on a daily basis.

A few years back there was a rookie working the plate in a MLB game. I can only remember that the Boston Red Sox were on defense. The bases were loaded with one out. There was a sharp grounder to the shortstop. He threw to the catcher in plenty of time to get the runner from third on the force. R3 was out by 6 steps. To the whole world's surprise, the rookie called the runner safe.

It took a look at the replays from two different camera angles before it could be ascertained that the catcher's toes were on the dirt in front of the plate, and just before he caught the throw his heel came up off the plate.

It was a very bad call, and it cost the rookie his job in The Show. He went back to AAA and hasn't filled in since. The reason is simple -- he had obviously not developed the instinct required to make the call that's obvious to everyone, nor had he developed the judgment on exactly when to use it.

If you don't like these concepts, that's okay. A lot of amateur umpires are taken aback when they first learn of them. Some never get it. But you'd be wise to understand them and try incorporating them over time.

When the world sees a color and calls it brown, don't be an overbearing oaf and insist it's burnt sienna. Agree with the world and say it's brown. It's their reality that matters, not yours.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 18, 2007, 02:22am
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This is one of the best posts I have ever read --on any umpgroup. Huzzahs, JP.

Ace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
Because the *right* call is the call obvious to everyone. If the whole world sees an out, by golly it's an out. What kind of an umpire would say that it wasn't? Our very jobs are to ensure that one team does not gain an unfair advantage not intended by the rules. It isn't about microscoping and minutiae.

It's not a Smittyism, it's advanced umpiring. It's how such concepts like the phantom tag play and the neighborhood play came to be -- two techniques we see employed by the big boys in MLB on a daily basis.

A few years back there was a rookie working the plate in a MLB game. I can only remember that the Boston Red Sox were on defense. The bases were loaded with one out. There was a sharp grounder to the shortstop. He threw to the catcher in plenty of time to get the runner from third on the force. R3 was out by 6 steps. To the whole world's surprise, the rookie called the runner safe.

It took a look at the replays from two different camera angles before it could be ascertained that the catcher's toes were on the dirt in front of the plate, and just before he caught the throw his heel came up off the plate.

It was a very bad call, and it cost the rookie his job in The Show. He went back to AAA and hasn't filled in since. The reason is simple -- he had obviously not developed the instinct required to make the call that's obvious to everyone, nor had he developed the judgment on exactly when to use it.

If you don't like these concepts, that's okay. A lot of amateur umpires are taken aback when they first learn of them. Some never get it. But you'd be wise to understand them and try incorporating them over time.

When the world sees a color and calls it brown, don't be an overbearing oaf and insist it's burnt sienna. Agree with the world and say it's brown. It's their reality that matters, not yours.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 18, 2007, 06:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
Because the *right* call is the call obvious to everyone. If the whole world sees an out, by golly it's an out. What kind of an umpire would say that it wasn't? Our very jobs are to ensure that one team does not gain an unfair advantage not intended by the rules. It isn't about microscoping and minutiae.
The rules say something about the runner having to be tagged in order to be called out. I know I'm a smitty, but I'm pretty sure on this one.
Stay with me on this, if the rule says he has to be tagged, defensive player misses the tag, you signal out even though you saw the missed tag, who just gained an advantage not intended by rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
It's not a Smittyism, it's advanced umpiring. It's how such concepts like the phantom tag play and the neighborhood play came to be -- two techniques we see employed by the big boys in MLB on a daily basis.
Guess what? The big boys have changed.
2 plays this past weekend cubs/astros.
2 straight steal attempts ball clearly beats runner, both "obvious" outs, both were called safe. It took slow mo and 2 camera angles to prove ump right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
A few years back there was a rookie working the plate in a MLB game. I can only remember that the Boston Red Sox were on defense. The bases were loaded with one out. There was a sharp grounder to the shortstop. He threw to the catcher in plenty of time to get the runner from third on the force. R3 was out by 6 steps. To the whole world's surprise, the rookie called the runner safe.

It took a look at the replays from two different camera angles before it could be ascertained that the catcher's toes were on the dirt in front of the plate, and just before he caught the throw his heel came up off the plate.
If a heel comes off at first base is that an out as well? That would eliminate most discussion about going to your P for help. Or since the public can see the pulled foot on a raised base much easier we call that correcly, we only give the defense an advantage if the correct call is concealed from the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
It was a very bad call, and it cost the rookie his job in The Show. He went back to AAA and hasn't filled in since. The reason is simple -- he had obviously not developed the instinct required to make the call that's obvious to everyone, nor had he developed the judgment on exactly when to use it.
The trend seems to be going the direction of getting the call right. I'd say umpires would be better off being honest instead of trying to develop a knack for lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
If you don't like these concepts, that's okay. A lot of amateur umpires are taken aback when they first learn of them. Some never get it. But you'd be wise to understand them and try incorporating them over time.
I respectfully disagree.
Umpires, like politicians, that rule by popular opinion rather than good judgement are cowards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Porter
When the world sees a color and calls it brown, don't be an overbearing oaf and insist it's burnt sienna. Agree with the world and say it's brown. It's their reality that matters, not yours.
And all this time I thought I was the one hired to be the impartial arbiter, instead I'm nothing more than a tool of popular opinion.
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