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I Guess I Deserved it, or Maybe Not.....
A couple of years ago I allowed the parent in me to take over during one of my sons game's. I know it wasn't right for me to jump on the umpire working the bases on the game, but I did it anyway. The PU was a rook and the BU should have known better. Here's what happened.
My son was on second base with two outs. F1, for whatever reason, engaged the rubber in the windup. As he started to step back with his free foot my son took off for third. Without even a second thought the pitcher quickly turned and threw my son out at third. I was livid that this guy allowed the out to stand on such a huge balk, one that a second year umpire should be able to call in his sleep. So, I yelled to him that he wasn't worth the $55.00 they were paying him if he couldn't make that call. Well, tonight I saw him for the first time since then working my middle sons tournament game. Before the game he walked straight up to me and told me that if I said one word about one of his calls tonight he'd eject me from the park. I told him he didn't have anything to say to me, but if he planned on ejecting me as a spectator watching my son play he'd better be ready for the $hit-storm to follow with the league. I know I shouldn't have said anything two years ago, but for him to seek me out tonight and confront me like this was BS. Tim. |
You should have told him that he wouldn't hear anything from you as long as he doesn't f*** up calls the way he did two years ago. Did you ask him if he knows the balk rule now? Unbelievable, coming up to you two years later and saying something. What kind of bush league move was that, anyway? Since when do umpires address the fans with warnings before a game? BS I say!
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What was really bad, Steve, was that he allowed the opposing pitcher tonight to continually pitch from the set without even a hint of a stop or discernable pause. I alerted Matt's coach to it and he went out and asked him why between innings. This mope told my son's coach that he doesn't have to stop or pause as long as he changes direction. I didn't say anything more though.
Tim. |
You shouldn't yell at or criticize officials if you're a spectator at the game under ANY circumstances. He's your fellow blue out there and that isn't the way you should be conducting yourself. You know how tough it is out there.
In the future, talk to him after the game and give him some advice in a kind way if he's obvously ignorant of the pitching regulations as you've said. But on a side note, what he did recently to you is crap- i agree. |
F1 tonight was doing that - stepping off with his free foot then throwing to 1st.
Of course that wasn't as good as the PU calling Batter Interference on the batter for not ducking (batter just froze like he was taught) when F2 tried to throw over him to third base. Was comical really cause the Batter was at least a foot taller than F2. Silly of ump really, personally I can't remember who said what two nights ago let alone two years ago. |
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Yeah, the guy sounds terrible, but SOMEone at that game is going to know you're an umpire, so the original comment was a bad idea. He had the right to give a face full in return, even if the statute of limitations had run out. |
Agree with HokieUmp, he was out of line for bringing it back up, but if I were him, I'd be pretty pissed at you, even after 2 years. I can forget what parents say, but you are held to a much higher standard. What differentiates you from a rat coach? Not much in this situation.
When you're a spectator, you're a spectator. Watch the game, enjoy your son, and don't do anything but cheer. Because of what you said 2 years ago all other parents around you must think its okay for them to say the same to the next umpire in the next game because you acted that way. So now you not only caused problems for that original umpire, but potentially for every other umpire that has had to work your son's team. Yes, it's crap that the umpire came up to you 2 years later, but frankly, you should have said said nothing (aloud during the game anyway) two years ago in the first place. -Tuss |
As an umpire, I couldn't tell you what fan said what if you gave me a 2 person lineup and one of them was Fran Drescher and one of them was a dad wearing a baseball hat. I don't know who said what and I usually couldn't care less what recycled lines the fans are spewing...mainly because I have things to do while on the baseball field.
It's odd to me that not only he knew you said what you said, but he also remembered the whole thing to act on it later. As a fan, I keep to myself. |
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On the other hand if I had been approached in the parking lot by anybody with anything negative to say I would tell them to kiss my 8ss. You caused the confrontation in the parking lot. Get over it. For him to remember 2 years later and confront you in the parking lot is weak. Tell him you are sorry you made the comments and you would like to erase the memory, start over, and just enjoy the game, and you will not have anything to say during the game except to encourage your team. If he can't accept that then... |
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What's worse? A mope or a backstabber? Unbelievable.....:rolleyes: |
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If you pulled some horsecra p like that on me, next time I saw you, first word out of your mouth would mean you are gone. If I knew you were an ump, I would have been calling the commissioner/assignor of your association after the first incident and letting him know what is up. You broke what is in my opinion a MAJOR no-no between umpires! Under NO circumstances do you EVER criticize another umpire in front of other people! And then to come here bragging about it. :rolleyes: |
Yes, you deserved it.
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Look, I already said I should have never made the comment. It was stupid of me. Sometimes things happen that we're not proud of. Like I said, the parent in me took over the umpire in me, which truth be told is a heck of a lot more dominant. Tim. |
Yes, I have ejected spectators. Never an umpire spectator taking jabs at me, but ones who have used profanity towards people on the field, or threats towards people on the field, or taunting players.
In a case like this, I would make sure you were gone if you made comments again. That is big time bush league. Coming here and talking smack about him is almost as low. He is not here of course to defend himself, and tell HIS version of events. So, we have to take the word of a fellow umpire who yells crappy things to other umpires during games they do then comes on a BBS to talk more smack about them. Sorry, I lost ANY respect for you I might have had before. You certainly deserve what you have got out of all of this. :rolleyes: |
It's easy to dump on Tim. How about the lack of respect the umpire involved clearly gives the game?
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The tread wasn't about that. Seemingly, it was about ragging on that ump. :rolleyes:
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For the umpire to have that long of a memory, while at the same time being clueless about the rules, tells me all I need to know about this Smitty to start with. I sure wouldn't want to work with someone who doesn't know the most rudimentary rules like what foot to step off with, or that the pitcher has to come to a stop. While it was wrong of Tim to do what he did two years ago, I find it far more offensive that this incompetent umpire felt it necessary to seek out a fan who paid his nothing to get in, and threaten him. Major Bush League. |
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And.....an admittedly biased account by an admittedly biased parent doesn't make it right either. I can understand an umpire misinterpreting a rule. That can be fixed without publicly sticking a knife in his back however. I'd like to hear the other umpire's story though. Personally, I give zero credibility to fanboys. Especially fanboys that should know better. JMO....... |
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It's called "back-stabbing". I've seen dozens of different "Code of Ethics" printed for various sports and sports officials. One thing that they <b>all</b> have in common is some kind of clause stating that you don't crap on your fellow officials in public. Missed calls or bad officiating happens some times. There are sub-par officials in all sports. What your buddy did though was inexcusable. |
You say that it was bad on the umpire's part to bring it up two years later...but is it possible that he brought it up because he knew you were an umpire? In otherwords is it possible that he would have forgotten all about the incident if you were just a "fan"...but because you are an umpire he remembered it for all those months?
Frankly, I have no sympathy at all for you. You did deserve it. As President of my association, if an umpire called me and told me that another association member yelled at him on the field...there would be serious consequences. To me, that's as egregious a "sin" as any in the umpiring profession. I have (and will again, I'm sure) reemed out members of the association for yelling at umpires while attending a game as a fan. That behavior is remembered by me for a long time...especially when its time to send names to the state office for playoff games. |
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I am sure you have made your share and wouldn't appreciate a comment like the one you gave the BU. Also, this is your son we are talking about. When my kids played I made it a point to stay "clear" because whenever the fans felt there was a bad call or lack of a call they wanted to "wrope me" in If you are going to watch your sons game and get "worked up" over it whenever blue makes a bad call or in this case a no call my advice would be to stay away from the action. As far as what the BU said to you this time IMO you asked for it by saying he wasn't worth the $55.00 When I watch a game I am looking for hustle on the part of blue. If they do not hustle or get into position that gets me more upset then a bad call or lack there-of because I have been there. Things happend in a heartbeat and some-times I think we all said to ourselves - Hey I missed a balk on that one Some-times umpires make the worst spectators. Pete Booth |
An umpire remembers a fan from 2 years ago and chooses to confront him?
A "parent's instincts" take over from an "umpire's instincts" when the son isn't in danger? Despite knowing it's "wrong," an umpire/parent alerts the coach of a potential balk not being called? Must have been a full moon last night. |
What a farce ! A pitcher that doesn't know the rudimentary skills. Obviously a coach that hasn't coached. An umpire that doesnt't know / enforce the most basic rules and thinks he has the authority to control fans. A fan - dad - umpire that can't stop himself from trying to control a game that he isn't working.
Yeah, I've seen all those, just not at the same time, in one game. I have "ejected" fans, meaning I've asked league / school administration to remove said fan due to him/her being out of control and having a negative impact on the game, players, coaches, etc. LawUmp: Do you monitor all other private actions of umpires in your association? What and how they drive, to and from the game? Whether or not they "have a few" in the parking lot or at a local "watering hole" after a game? How they spend the money received for umpiring? Hmm. Withholding a recommendation for playoff assignments based upon perceived unethical behavior while attending a game as a fan? Sound like you have one tough association. Had I been the fan - dad- umpire, rather than publicly jumping on that "umpire", I would have provided written documentation to his assignor / association regarding his lack of basic skills. Even if I had "screwed up" and jumped on him from the stands, I would have written him up when he conducted himself inappropriately two years later. That's a long, long time to remember a slight and hold a grudge. From many of the posts here, as umpires most of us would eject a coach or player that got in our face about an issue from a previous game; but we "support" a fellow umpire that commits the same infraction? How ethical is that, gentlemen? |
Hmmm,
A few disconnected thoughts here:
1- Life is about choices. Tim selected to support his son and made a choice to handle it as he did. While I would never place myself in his position I do support him making the choice he did . . . he did something rather than nothing . . . that takes a certain amount of bravery. 2- I umpire with "Rei" . . . please recognize that he is a "by the book" umpire. He calls all the rules equally and fairly in each game. While "Rei" and I will never see eye-to-eye on many, many issues he chooses to deal with happenings in his game in a consistent and strong willed way. 3- I am amazed at the venom from some posters on an official speaking out in a manner that does not support a workig official. I guess I would ask: "if I was a high school basketball coach and a working umpire would I be held to a different standard while coaching my team?" Would I not be able to speak my mind freely to a working basketball official? Let's go a step further: if I pay to go to a major league game and an umpire (crew) seriously misapplies a rule do you folks expect me to do or say nothing if asked by another person in the crowd? 4- In closing was Tim wrong? Maybe . . . but he was only 50% of the incorrect behavior. Regards, |
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IMO, there is absolutely no excuse for any umpire (or official for that matter)at any level to take the field/court of play and not have an understanding of the rules. We all have or will make mistakes in judgement but to simply not know or understand the rules is simply lazy. In the original game, where was the PU to help with the balk call (or lack of in this case)? The illegal move got by both of them?
I am now a parent/umpire watching my daughter play softball. It is very difficult watching umpires work softball games that are very clearly in it for the money. There is no excuse for lack of rules knowledge. I can understand a bad positioning or bad judgement, those things happen, but not bad rules knowledge. I am curious if the BU's association or crew chief or UIC (whatever they are called in your area) had a conversation and training time with this young umpire. I wonder if the BU would have even been receptive of another umpire talking to him about his screw up? IMHO, two wrongs in this story. I believe the poster has learned and growen from his mistake, has the BU? |
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Remember the Indian / O's game. The point is "it happens to the best of them" One is judged or let me re-phrase should be judged on a COMPLETE body of work not ONE call or Lack of a call. Look at Mr. Denkinger who received death threats and will be forever remembered for that call at first base, but if one looks at Mr. Denikinger's complete body of work he was regarded by his peers as one of the best. Balks even blatent one's sometimes are missed. They happen in a heartbeat not because we do not know the rule but just like being out of position we simply "missed it" There are times when I believe most of us said to ourselves "I cannot believe I missed that one - He balked" but we didn't call it. In Tim's OP we do not know how the ENTIRE game played out. Was this BU who made the no call in position the majority of times to make "other' calls. It's one thing to "get on the official" it's quite another to say You are not worth the $55.00 Pete Booth |
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If an irate parent yelling insults at an ump is bravery then what must we call the coach who whines, yells and insults the ump for a call on a boy who was not his son and then gets tossed? The ultimate hero? A martyr? A christlike figure willing to be sacrificed at the alter of bad umping? Bravery is best left out of this discussion. As for support, I think most can agree that the best support he could be for his son is just being there and encouraging. Not teaching by example unsportsmanlike behavior is ok when calls don't go your way |
~Heavy Sigh~
"The ultimate hero? A martyr? A christlike figure willing to be sacrificed at the alter of bad umping?"
Again, it does not pay to say even the most simple of facts on this website. Knowing Tim as I do he made a well thoughtout and measured response to the calling umpire. He was "probably" not an over-the-top "daddy" type responder. I said a "certain amount" bravery. And I stand by that. Tim knew both that as his position as an umpire he could be criticize (or even penalized) for speaking his mind. The decision to not only confront the original issue but to also bring it here for dicussion showed a "certain amount" of bravery. Don, after reading your posts for some time there isn't much we agree on . . . this is just another one of those issues. Regards, |
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I challenge you to find anyone, who is not a personal friend of the OP, that would call this brave. Quote:
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Don,
As I pointed out, he came forward here and admitted his error in judgment. He let his emotions dictate his behavior. He began his post by saying he felt he possibly deserved what happened. I think the umpire in question is an idiot, and shouldn't be allowed on a baseball field. People like this are not fellow umpires IMO. They are clowns masquerading as umpires, and know nothing about the game. Please don't even try to say that you have never hollered at an umpire before, because I'm just not buying it. That goes for the rest of you sanctimonious liars out there. You've all booed the umpire before. You may not have done what Tim did, but I read here all the time about how so-and-so blew the call on the MLB game, and how they shouldn't even have a job, etc. We criticize other umpires all the time. Tim just got caught up in the moment. He came here, the one place he can go to confess his sins, and everyone is taking pot-shots at him now. He's a big boy, and he can take the assaults, but remember that he had the courage to admit his mistake. |
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For example, I umpire with a guy (who is a very, very good Div. 1 major-conference college umpire) who complains about (baseball) head coaches. He will say to other umpires that "that coach is a no good such-and-such" and "this coach is a no good xxxxxx" . Which is fine...we all say things like that about certain coaches to other umpires away from the field. However, this same umpire also coaches a high school girls basketball team and he also likes to tell us stories about how proud he was to get tossed twice during the regular season because "the officials were just horrible and they needed to know it." You know what? I have little respect for someone with that double-standard. It pisses me off, frankly. Don't moan and groan as an umpire about a head coach because "all he does is b itch and moan and whine all game long" and then go out and do the same thing when you're coaching basketball in the off-season. Frankly, if I'm umpiring in a game with a guy who is also an *** hole coach (toward officials) ..I may just be a step slower in helping him out when they're ready to burn the dugouts on him. You know: give him a chance to stand there and see how he likes being the official in that situation. Quote:
[I realize that in a MLB park not everyone in the stands will hear you (except in DC) or know you're an umpire...but in the OP...or at a high school game, this is a very real possibility.] Quote:
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Whether the umpire was right or wrong isn't really a factor. What really does matter is that you've got a supposedly fellow umpire publicly back-stabbing one of his supposed brethren. We expect that from coaches and fans. We don't expect it from fellow officials. I wouldn't like to share a field with either of you. I'd be afraid to turn my back. Sad.......:( |
lawump:
If I was a basketball coach I would be paid to win (and possibly be fired if I ran a losing program) and therefore I would contend, over a cold adult beverage, that I should be held to no higher standard than any other coach.
Why should I be at a disadvantage? While I don't wear these two hats I would contend that my JOB allows me certain leeway . . . I Like Turtles, |
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I have never yelled at any umpire since the day I became one. EVER. I've had discussions with them after the game, WHEN I'M THERE EVALUATING THEM FOR OUR ASSOCIATION...but if I'm there just as a fan (i.e. my son's games) I just let it go. If you want to call me a liar go ahead, that's simply a crutch to justify your own behavior. |
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When I umpire, I fully expect to be booed, as it is rich in tradition of this grand game. |
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I've been known to get popcorn and peanuts thrown at me when my family (diehard Red Sox fans) are at a baseball game and they're all screaming at the umpire and I'm defending him.
Frankly, as for MLB, maybe because I knew or know enough of them from my days in pro ball...it makes it pretty hard for me to boo and or yell at them. Its always easier to yell at a stranger than someone you lived and traveled with for 6 months, or who was in your umpire class, or was in the same minor league as you or was your teacher/mentor at umpire school and after. In all my time in pro ball there was only 1 guy who I couldn't stand and in whom I found no redeeming qualities...we nearly came to blows one spring...but while I hope to God he doesn't get promoted from the reserve list ahead of some other persons on that list...I still can't bring myself to boo him. |
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Please reread my posts, comprehension is essential. Though I'm not in agreement with what Tim said, I have not been piling on. My posts have been aimed specifically at Tim's #1 apologist Tim C who called his outburst an act of bravery. |
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Why should that coach be held to a higher standard because sometimes he's an umpire? During the game, his job is coach. He should feel free to act like any other coach and my methods of dealing with him should be no different than the methods I use when someone else is coaching. Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. |
Lawump:
"In all my time in pro ball there was only 1 guy who I couldn't stand and in whom I found no redeeming qualities...we nearly came to blows one spring . . ."
I guess every class has one of "these guys" (@ Brinkman it was a minor league instructor that lied, cheated and attempted intentionally to place certain students in a bad light). I took care of ours (while there were no blows I did push him in the chest hard enough that he lost his balance). Since that January anyone in our class has always called "problem umpires": "Oh he's just a Whitehead.") Just for the record I don't even cheer at professional games so there would be no reason to comment on the umpire's qualities. I Like Turtles, |
Tim C,
Frankly, I can't go to ANY game and watch it as a "fan". When the ball is in play, I'm always watching the umpires anyways. From one Brinkman grad to another, |
Don:
Maybe it is you that needs to learn to read:
I thought I was clear when I said the bravery was to: 1) Originally face the issue knowing well he could be in trouble for what he did and, 2) Being brave enough to bring this issue to our attention to discuss. I did not say, nor did I mean to say, the discussion items were brave. Again, we just can't agree on umpiring and that is fine as we will never, thankfully, work a game together. I Like Turtles, |
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But, that still doesn't change my opinion, Steve. Mis-interpreting a rule...hell, completely blowing a call.....is <b>not</b> justification for an umpire to sit in the stands and publicly dump on a fellow umpire. Umpires, the same as all sports officials, range from excellent to horrible. And even the excellent ones might miss or screw-up a call. Publicly criticizing a fellow umpire for one bad call effectively turns that umpire into the world's worst umpire, forever, by anyone in the stands that might hear that public criticism. What you're going to hear from the other fanboys is "Even his fellow umpires think that he's terrible". Officials in all sports are held to different standards than fans or coaches. We're the only ones that don't care who wins or loses. Again, jmo...... |
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I don't find that ridiculous at all. |
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It was also wrong of the so-called umpire to confront Tim prior to the game, which I was also pointing out. |
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The "no justification" point was exactly the point that I was trying to make. |
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Maybe I'm dense but this says nothing about being brave enough to come to a discussion board. Quote:
We've found our first common ground...Parents yelling at umpires is not brave. There's hope for us yet Tim |
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None of those are "excuses" but I know I've (likely) missed a call fro some unexplanable reason -- case in point: HS Regional game. I'm PU. R2 scores; defense appeals he missed third. I can see (in my mind's eye) R2 approaching third. I can see him leaving third. I have no effin' idea whether he touched third, so I denied the appeal. Dugout went nuts. I'm "sure" I missed it. I have no idea what happened in that stretch. |
I knew when I started the thread there would be many of you that would jump my arse. Truth is I'm glad you did because I deserved it. I already knew there was no excuse for what I did, and believe me, I'm not asking any of you to excuse it. I was wrong...wrong...wrong for saying a word to the guy. I did it though and that cannot be changed. The point of the thread, if there is just one point, is to find out what my brothers in blue think about this guy seeking me out before a game two years after I gave him a hard time in order to issue a threat to me. We talk all the time about starting a game involving a coach we've recently dumped with a new slate. It just didn't seem right to me for him to seek me out and issue issue a pre-game warning to a parent.
Tim. |
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I am glad that you at least realize HOW wrong it was to do. |
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"Gentlemen, we contract with OSAA for games played under NFHS rules. It is not up to us to decide which rules to enforce and which not to. We are to apply ALL rules in the rule book!" As I recall, this was a Point of Emphasis in the last two years!!! "strong willed way". Thank you. :) I take that as "Taking charge of the situation" type of compliment. I am not sure what we aren't seeing eye to eye about Tim? We are both required to apply ALL rules out of the NFHS rule book. Now indeed, you think that rubbing dirt on the white stitching of a mitt changes the color to something other than white, even though after a person does this, 999 out of 1000 people would say it is "white". ;) I say that is playing lawyer, and is not in the spirit of the rule. I would consider that a pretty minor difference of opinion about an "issue" eh? ;) Yelling out to a fellow umpire "You are not worth the $55 they are paying you" while you are in the stands and people around know you are an umpire (or even if they don't)? Hmmmmmmm....I would be ashamed to associate with anybody who thinks that is in ANY way OK! |
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Tim. |
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What bugs me is that YOU have the responsibility to handle this situation correctly, you didn't, you admit it, but you are still trying to justify it. What that tells me is that you don't really have any sincerity in your admission that you did anything wrong. That fact that you even question where you deserved his response or not tells me the same thing. You should really think that all through. Your one little comment that you made to make yourself feel better for a brief amount of time caused a LOT of grief to a fellow official, and possibly made his job harder to perform because of it's slanderous nature from an "expert" (which is what bias parents of teammates of you son believe you to be, even though they should know better than to think you can have ANY kind of unbiased outlook on the situation while your son is playing... :rolleyes: ). Then you come on here blasting him some more. What is next? You gonna post his name so we can all seek him out to heckle him during a game? :mad: You are in NO position to defend yourself. You crack open ANY Code of Ethics for ANY of the rule books you ump games under, and I am sure there will be something about your publicly criticizing and/or making disparaging comments about a fellow official. Trying to defend it on an internet BBS more or less convinces me that you might be just a TAD bit crazy! ;) |
No, I wasn't trying to defend what I said. I was attempting to see if you in any way could relate to what it's like to see this happen to your own son. You can't, so think about that before you jump back on your pedestal and tell me what you would have done.
Tim. |
I would guess that it is well known in his community that Tim is an umpire. So, when he made his disparaging comment to the umpire who made the incorrect call during his son's game, I would guess that to many who heard it at the time, his comment was that of an experienced official (rather than just the mindless drivel of a clueless parent, frequently and regularly heard at youth baseball games).
As such, as Tim obviously knows and has freely admitted, his comments were certainly inappropriate. However, for the umpire to hold a grudge for over TWO YEARS over a comment made during a youth baseball game and to accost a fan and threaten him before a game is obscenely unprofessional, most certainly conduct unbecoming an umpire, and an infantile response to the situation. Umpires should conduct themselves like umpires when they arrive at a game site and completely ignore fans unless their conduct affects the progress of the game - even if their feelings were hurt during a game two years ago. JM |
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I used to coach adult teams many years ago. I pulled this same kind of crap. Guess what? EVERY ump that did one of my games was ready to eject me, and would after the first comment of any kind questioning their calls. I deserved it. I will not sit here and try defend my behavior. Yes, some of these guys made HORRENDOUS calls, and worse than against my son, they were against ME!!! I know far too well where you are coming from, and I am telling your with certainty that if you cannot restrain yourself from making disparaging comments towards umpires, or any sports official while you are at games, you should either: 1 - Quit attending games. 2 - Quit umpiring while your son plays. I know umpires who could handle it gracefully, and would never think to conduct themselves like you did. Again, there is no way you can defend your actions. |
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I guess you're going to make me out to be a monster no matter how much contrician I show. Not that it really matters as you've already formed your opinion that I'm some heinous individual that seeks out umpires working my sons games to prey on them, but I think you should know something. The game in question where the comment was made involved my oldest son. The game last night involved my middle son. I have had three sons playing baseball at levels from tee-ball to HS for 12 years, and this was the only, I repeat only time I was foolish enough to let my emotions as a parent overwhelm me. I'd say all told I've attended over 2,000 games involving my sons over the years. One bad decision out of two thousand chances isn't all that bad. You were a coach and as such had an understanding that there would be umpires that would hold a grudge against you because of a prior incident. It's not right for them to do so, but to me it's more understandable than for an umpire to hold a similar grudge against a parent. Tim. |
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Tim. |
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Hmm,
This thread should be locked.
I Like Turtles, |
I hope that's not the case, Tee. I'll withdraw from the thread in hopes that more reasonable minds can discuss the bigger issues.
* Is it ever appropriate for us to hold a grudge against a fan, player, or coach for a previous incident, whatever the reason * Is it ever appropriate for an umpire to seek out a parent-fan-whatever before a game and issue a pre-game warning. Tim. |
Yes, Tim came on to admit a mistake he made a couple years ago, rei wants to send him to prison, comparing him to a child molester. Yes, I would say this thread has taken a wrong turn somewhere.
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I think that many of you need to remember a saying uttered by a Holy Man of old - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I wish that He were here now because He would be scribing in the dirt how many of you have done similar things that Tim has admitted to!
We have all at one time violated that sacred rule, I don't care who you are. If you sat in the stands and leaned over to your wife and said, "The BU on this game hasn't a clue" is just as bad as yelling it out! I think that Tim was wrong for what he did (just as I was many years ago) but someone that holds a grudge for two years is a lot worse (at least in my opinion). Tim, you had the balls to step up and tell us your trip to the Dark Side and as long as you learned from your mistake (remember people, we all make them) and gained enlightenment from the incident, go forth and "sin" no more. Regards |
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Really? |
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Confront a spectator? That's worse than being a rat.
What a smitty. I wouldnt let him Umpire T-Ball. On second thought......... :mad: btw...Thanks rei: one more to ignore...:cool: |
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This thread has been high entertainment.
I once coached. I gave umpires all the heck I could but never got tossed. I knew where the line was. Then I started umpiring and also coached. I gave umpires less heck, knew more about the line. Then I stopped coaching and only umpire. Now I NEVER holler at an umpire in a game I am watching regardless of the situation. I MIGHT lean over to someone I am with and comment on a ruling that is in the process of being blown, but that's about it. I think BIGUMP's hollering at the umpire was poor conduct of an umpire, especially mentioning Money and even an amount. Many fans would consider the amount a lot, who don't know anything about association fees, travel expenses, equipment purchases, insurance, etc., not to mention games that go 3.5 hours on the back side of a double header, bruises and broken bones due to little darling catchers who can't catch, getting off work early to work a double header and getting home late, the list goes on and on... The point is BIGUMP lost his mind for a moment, forgot who he was, what he does for a hobby. He should keep his mouth shut at future events and then he will not have to complain about some bigger jerk umpire who remembers, 2 years later. |
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Also since you like turtles Are you a fan of the movie series Rocky? Cuff and Link come to mind Pete Booth |
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My take on the above: 1) Don't hold a "grudge" (which I interpret as "look to get even"), but recognize that the previous encounter provides a suggestion as to how future encounters might go. Thus, you might be less lenient / quicker to eject, etc. 2) In your specific instance (as described by you), no. But, I suppose it's possible for this to occassionally fall under "preventive officiating." |
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In any event, it has nothing to do with Tim's (calrified) point and I think it's time we moved on. |
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