Is it a balk?
 

R1, R3. RHP. Pitcher steps back off the rubber with right foot and slowly turns and does a pump fake to first base. Is this a balk or does the fact that he stepped off the rubber first make him an infielder so the faked throw is meaningless?

As long as the pitcher didn't begin a motion to pitch like rasing his arms as he stepped off for example, it's not a balk.


Tim.

he stepped off with his right foot behind the rubber. The umpire admitted that. Then said that you can never fake a throw to first, even if he does step off the rubber correctly. Cost us a ball game Friday night.

The umpire misapplied the rule then. Also, unless the winning run was balked in on the call it didn't cost you the ball game.


Tim.

An incorrect balk call cost you the game?

Sounds like your team didn't get enough runs - but of course, that was the umpire's falult, wasn't it? :mad:

How did the protest come out?

I second the motion. Better get your 10-year-olds to the batting cages, coach.

Why do coaches teach pitchers to step off and then throw to 1b? can't the pitcher's learn the correct pick off move? I love it when they airmail a ball and I get to put R1 at 3b.

The same reason that coaches want a balk when the opposing pitcher throws to first from the rubber.

My theory is different. Some coaches, especially at lower levels, can't be bothered to figure out the balk rule. Other coaches misunderestimate their pitchers' intelligence. Coach knows that a pitcher who steps off cannot balk by feinting or throwing to any base, so they just teach that to keep it simple.

We will find out in a few days.

Perhaps you should find out information before you type things that make you look like a moron.

I am not a coach. It's an amatuer league game that had a big bearing on the standings and it's two teams that love to compete against one another.

The fact that the run that scored won the game on a balk that was called that wasn't a balk is what is bothering me. If we get beat by them hitting the ball or us not throwing enough strikes, I can live with that, but the fact that with a 1 and 2 count with 2 outs ump makes a call that even his partner admitted was a bad call(later after the game) is what makes me angry.

In this situation, R1 had taken a huge lead and was told by the first basement to step off. It's the right move. The pitcher stepped off and just did a pump fake to try and see what the runner on 3rd was doing.

You really should have followed your own advice in your own posts.

1) A pump fake is something a quarterback does on the Stop And Go play.

2) You didn't supply more information prior to mbyron's post. Maybe if you had supplied us with more information, we could give you better answers. But I doubt it, the answers you got are all good ones.

3) You say you are not a coach, but you refer to the team as "us" and "we" when writing, which means you have some interest in this team. Get your team to the batting cages so they can learn to score some more runs.

4) One call by the umpire does not decide the outcome of the game. Your team should have scored more runs (see # 3), then they would not have found themselves in such a bad situation when a call didn't go their way.

5) You said, "the fact that with a 1 and 2 count with 2 outs ump makes a call that even his partner admitted was a bad call(later after the game) is what makes me angry." This tells me that the call happened earlier in the game, not on the last play to end the ballgame. How in the hell can you blame a call that happened earlier in the game for "your" team's inability to score runs (see # 3) the rest of the freakin' game?

And you're calling people here that you don't even know "morons?":mad:

Hehehe
 

Cry me a river, rat.

Nice post, Steve.

Yet AGAIN, the SQUEEKING of a RAT is heard. Lies, and cheats is ALL you get from them. dont WASTE time explaining rules, they will just use it on you EVERY chance they get.

admit NOTHING to a rat. NOTHING. He thinks you are HORRIBLE no matter what, so who cares about his questions?

Stepping off the rubber and freezing the runner at third in this situation might have been the right thing go do. However, I was speaking about a routine throw to first. I've seen some pitchers that don't know how to do the jump turn. Two issues with that are, 1) a ball gets thrown OOB, 2 base award and 2) runners are never picked off.

I suspect it's because the coach doesn't know how to teach the move.

Hitters get 'game winning RBIs', Fielders routinely get credited with 'game saving catches' a reliever comes in at the bottom of the ninth with 2 outs pitches to one batter and gets a 'save'. These are all one play or one batter episodes
Why is it so outlandish to suggest that an umpire who screws the pooch on a rules interp which definitively results in a score can't have some responsibility in the outcome?

If, instead of a balk, the batter hits a single and scores R3 everyone will look to that play as the game winning hit. If the ump blows a rules interp that results in the same run scoring we're not to think it has any bearing on the game?
If the ump makes any judgement call that results in a run, good bad or indifferent from the perspectives of any onlooker, player or coach I would never credit the ump with any responsibility for the outcome, but a blown rules interp is different.
Which is exactly why there's a thing called a protest.
The fact that there is a provision for protests acknowledges that a blown rules interp can effect outcomes.

Which is exacly why as umpires we need to know our rules!

then WHY didnt' the rat protest the game? Isnt' that his JOB (among other things)?

According to whom? The rats who lobbied for that provision?

I don't know that he didn't, do you?

Besides, I don't particularly care one way or another, I was speaking generally to the sentiment on this thread that an umpire has no effect on the outcome.
I don't minimize the role of the ump so much to say that his calls aren't crucial to outcomes. They most certainly are.
They are so crucial that we spend much time and effort to learn proper mechanics and positioning so that we have the best opportunity to make the correct call. If the calls were not important who cares if we don't hustle to get in good position or if we have a good angle or not, heck if it's not important and crucial then I'll just stay in A and minimize my risk of injury.
A blown rules interp can impact a game, nothing wrong with admitting it, it's the truth.
In the rare instance that a coach knows you blew the rule then mark one up for the rats the score is already so lopsided they can never catch up.

Do you minimize your role in the game so much to think you have no influence?

If you understand your job, you understand that you have no undue influence on the outcome of the game.

if he PROTESTED, fine! let the process WORK, and ACCEPT the decision.....


without cluttering up a UMPIRES' forum with constant WHINING. I have PLENTY to say about certain RATS but I dont' WHINE about them ON and ON (to other RATS, no less) when I dont' get the answer i WANTED.

That is just plain wrong!!!

I do understand my job and I'm surprised you think the influence of the umpire is so minimal.
I understand fully that if I blow a rules interp I can have a significant undue influence on the game.
That is why the job of umpire is so important

My job is to see that neither side has an advantage not intended by rule.

I do my job.

This isn't brain surgery, painting the Mona Lisa or curing cancer. You are not as important as you seem to think.

Did you not get hugged enough as a child?

I asked about a call in a game where the call made by the umpire directly influenced the outcome of the game(since the winning run was scored on said balk). Where did I whine?

Instead you go off on people calling them rats because you are this mighty umpire and act and talk like every one else is below you. Perhaps you can admit that one of our fellow umpires, yes, i did say fellow, made the incorrect call that decided a game.

Just a follow up. We did protest the game and will find out tomorrow on the ruling.

And you think I disagree?


You think I disagree?

Interesting that you come back on the attack and yet do not speak to the issue.
We're talking about a game of baseball, so all importance is relative to that game.

Speaking of relative importance...
Why is the Mona Lisa in the same sentence with curing cancer and brain surgery? :D

So you appeared.

Read my posts. I've spoken to the issue. I've told you what my job is and why I do not have an undue influence on the result of any game I work. I do my job. I don't strike out, I don't miss a base, I don't balk, I don't drop fly balls, I don't throw wild pitches, I don't miss tags, and I don't argue mindlessly with umpires.

I do my job, and by so doing, again, I do not have an undue influence on the outcome.

Now then, I am speaking for me. Perhaps you work differently .

It would take pages to explain to one with no understanding of the history of art, but the short version is....it's all in the hands, not the smile.

Again, the call did not cost you the game. There was more baseball played after the call, with plenty of opportunities to score more runs. The winning run did not score on that balk. Only the go ahead run scored on the balk. It didn't end the game. If it ended the game, then it may have cost you the game.

Now you await the decision on the protest. It will likely be upheld, as it appears the umpire blew the call. Did it have an effect on the game? Most certainly. Did it cost you the game? Absolutely not.

Your team failed to score any more runs. That's not the umpire's fault. He is not to blame because your team moped around about the umpire screwing them, and let it affect them to the point where they couldn't take matters into their own hands.

Hmm,
 

Since all I do as an umpire is report what I see any game I umpire is the easiest thing I do that day.

Regards,

WHAT????

You mean you don't realize you have the fragile fate of 18 young men and the consequences of all their effort and skill in your hands to crush or crown as you see fit? :D

Here's my original premise:
No where in that post or any subsequent post did I say GarthB screws the pooch, doesn't do his job, has an undue influence on the game or ever misinterprets the rules.

What I continue to say is that if an umpire, except Garth, blows a rules interp then the influence on the game can be profound.
Do you disagree?

I'm not sure if you take exception because you never blow a rules interp or if you think that IF a rules interp is blown it CANNOT effect the game.

My second post I said this:
You've taken serious offense to one of these statements. Which one was it?


No sense in quibbling over non important museum art.