Throwing to a base
 

Does the rule apply only to first base (FED rules) that the F3 must be holding the runner on the bag to receive a pick off throw? Provided 3B is occupied, is it a balk to throw to F5 who is off the bag?

Again,
 

The rule (under all codes) applies only to first base.

Regards,

First base is the only base a pitcher must complete the throw to from the rubber without balking. I'm sure you already knew that. That means that he doesn't have to complete the throw at all to second or third from the rubber as long as he steps ahead of the feint; etc.

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

To answer your question, The fielder receiving the pick off throw from the pitcher must be within reach of the occupied base for the throw NOT to be a balk.

Thank you for the help and clarification! Does the same rule apply to OBR? I worked with a very experienced umpire from our association. He called a balk on a picther for throwing to F4, who was moving toward 2B (occupied), but about four feet away. We were playing OBR.

Same answer for OBR.

This is false. The fielder must be able to make a play on the runner, and it only applies at first base. There is no requirement to be in reach of the base itself.

ONLY AT FIRST BASE!


At other bases you can throw to the fielder, even if he isn't close to the base.


MLBUM 7.5

(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

Holy Cow!

This sitch is not a third world play or extremely rare. It is clearly defined in the rule books and in numerous case books. Maybe I'm being a grouch, but to me it's lazy for someone not to take the time to study the rules before asking a question.

Wow!
 

"The fielder receiving the pick off throw from the pitcher must be within reach of the occupied base for the throw NOT to be a balk."

I am sure you mean ONLY at first base.

There are no "fielder placement" at any other base.

Regards,

Hey SDS, I DIDN'T SAY IT!

It's not so clear in the rule book, you have to own an interp manual to look it up.

It happens every year, this year I saw it once and heard about it once. Once in a game I was PU, neither my partner or I called a balk and I had to explain it to a 35+ year varsity high school coach. He said "I didn't know that.". Fortunately, the play was discussed in a pre-season clinic and my partner remembered it and did not call the balk.

The other time I was listening to a D-1 game on the radio. A throw over to 3B was called a balk with R3. The call was not made initially, but only after the HC from the 3B box called out "that's a balk". The other D-1 coach did not come out to argue so the run was allowed to score. The announcers, bless their heart, could not explain what happened for a balk to be called. I heard about it later, that the reason was the throw over to F5 who was off the bag. The run had no bearing on the outcome of the game. I know the guys working that game will never make that mistake again because I heard about it from a D-1 evaluator who was at the game.

Gentlemen: (NJD and RenRod)

Buy the Jim Evans DVD on Pitching Regulations and Balks. It will open up your mind immensely.

http://www.umpireacademy.com/store/

"It happens every year, this year I saw it once and heard about it once. Once in a game I was PU, neither my partner or I called a balk and I had to explain it to a 35+ year varsity high school coach. He said "I didn't know that.". Fortunately, the play was discussed in a pre-season clinic and my partner remembered it and did not call the balk."

I in fact saw it today, well I heard it happened today, I didn't see it.
But the umpire that called it, told me.

Experienced umpire, many years of FP and SP. Third year of BB.

Came to the pre-season clinics, watched Evans video.

He simply forgot, balked R2 to 3rd, when F1 turned and threw to F6 15' from
2nd

A couple of innings later I stroll up to watch the game, I'm up next and the UIC for the tourny.

He say's "hey, is it a balk?.. and runs through what happened.

I say "no".

He kinda pales a bit, as his memory suddenly kicked out the info.

I asked why his partner didn't correct it? He didn't know why, he'd called the balk.. Defensive coach came out, umpire told him why, coach turns and trots on back to the dugout.

So, sorry to say, there's two more teams out there thinking "it's a balk", and will be ready for the next umpire..uhhh!

The silver lining, no effect on the game, and there is one more umpire that'll never muck it up again.

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 is dove back to first; no, wait, yada yada yada

Who says he didn't Grouch? Maybe part of the reason anyone posts here regardless of insensitive tirades such as yours is to enjoy talking about umpiring.

Personally, lazy is defined to the ultimate by those who make replies and don't quote the source post. YMSurelyDiffers.

It's not just my logic. It's backed by very noteable sources. You really should get a few definitive resources and see for yourself.

From the J/R:

It is a balk if a pitcher:

11. Steps to first base, and :

3) Throws, but the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable (or if the throw is errant- would have been unable) to try a tag against the runner at first.


Tim.

That's one source, pardner, which addresses zip of the below, so try again.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by BigUmp56

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk, it's not near the bag. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 dove back to first; no, wait, F3 is not near the bag, or is he? yada yada yada.

"Near to the bag" has nothing to do with this call which was my point entirely. Legitimate chance to retire is the guts of this rule/call.

Your turn. :D :D

Ummmm.....

I believe I said the fielder must be near enough to the bag (distance) to have a legitimate chance to retire the runner or it's a balk


Roder says if the fielder, because of his distance from the bag, is unable to try a tag (legitimate opportunity to retire the runner) it's a balk.


I'm not sure what part has you confused.



Tim.

Yes you did. It's a crap call. Next.

None. F doesn't have to be near the bag to make a legitimate play on R.

Your turn.

Crap call? Maybe, but one that's supported by rule and definitive interpretation.

From the MLBUM:

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base.

Tim.

The rule, and Roder's interp, means that F3 must have a play on the runner. There is no specific distance from the base requirement, only that F3 has a play on the runner. Roder gave the phrase "because of his distance from the bag" as a visual aid for us to follow, not as part of the rule.

So, technically Fitump is (I hate to say it) right in that there is no distance from the base requirement, per se.

Tim is right in that F3 has to be close enough to the runner to make a play, but not necessarily close to the base. That is just a reference point for visualizing a play made away from the runner.

Sorry to offend you with my question. We're all not as good as interpreting the rule book as you! Ignore it if you don't like it. Like I said, an experienced umpire called a balk on a throw near second base. I read the rule and want to make sure I didn't miss anything!

Don't play into that game, there is no reason to be sorry.

There not as good as they thin either. Note the 1000s of man-hours of arguments. "Search" is your friend.

Want definitive? How about your buddy SDS?

<TABLE class=tborder id=post422771 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead>#7 http://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/report.gif
<!-- status icon and date -->http://forum.officiating.com/images/...n/post_old.gif Sun Jul 08, 2007, 11:10am <!-- / status icon and date -->

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><!-- user info --><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap>SanDiegoSteve http://forum.officiating.com/images/...er_offline.gif<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_422771", true); </SCRIPT>
Registered User

</TD><TD width="100%"></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap>Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,272



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_422771><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by renrodb
To answer your question, The fielder receiving the pick off throw from the pitcher must be within reach of the occupied base for the throw NOT to be a balk.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This is false. The fielder must be able to make a play on the runner, and it only applies at first base. There is no requirement to be in reach of the base itself.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So SDS agrees with me as well he should, there is no rwquirement to be in reach of the base. You want to tie the play to the bag which is absurd. The play is tied to R and the opportunity to put R out.

Further, your F3 "in front of" or "behind" without making an attempt on R, this is a professional interp? LOL . What about parallel to?

This calls to mind the crowd yelling to "Rocky"

Stay Down! Stay Down.

Your turn.