End of Game
 

I have read repeatedly that Umpires should avail themselves of the winning teams' side to exit from the field at games end. I have done and taught this for several years.

Tonight, a Tournament UIC/Scheduler advised me after a District LL 12u game I called that he wants me (All Umpires in the game) to form up at the mound at games conclusion, wait until all players and coaches have shook hands and then ask each Manager, "are we all set?", purportedly to await a last minute appeal or protest.

It goes against what I've learned here and practice. I'm usually the guy who is waiting at the fence exit for my partner. If the little cheese-nibblers want to protest or appeal something, they had better get it done before I get to the exit.

I suspect the District UIC knows that there is 'bad blood' or maybe just hot tempers between certain coaches and managers and wants the Umpires on the field until each team is completely seperated in their respective dugouts.
I don't feel I should have to hang around and 'keep the peace'. I also feel that if this guy [UIC] knows of a specific issue, he should just say so.

Would you do it? Am I being stubborn or unreasonable? Other thoughts or ideas? I hate the idea of missing something.

Perhaps its because at the LL level there are a million more protests (and often legitimate ones) because of inexperienced coaches, mandatory play rules, and pitching restrictions. Those three things can become a forcefield for creating problems. It has to be a LL thing in your assignors mind.

That being said, get the hell out of there when the game's over. TD's problem if there is a brawl after the game.

If you are forced to do so, what choice do you have? If not, exit.

"Mr. Director, when my game is finished, I get my partner or partner's together and we exit the field. If you wish to wait on the mound, that is your prerogative. I and my partners will be in the parking lot, changing."

We have been instructed by our UIC and District Administrator that at the conclusion of each LL All-Star game we are to haul a** off the field, no ifs, ands, or buts !

We do not hang around. If asked, my answer would bear an uncanny resemblence to ozzy's.

What should you do?

The same thing I and others told you to do on the other board. :)

Hmm,
 

Life is about choices.

If I select to work a game and the UIC tells me to wear a green shirt I have two choices:

1) Wear a green shirt and work the game,

2) Turn back the game and not work.

I don't really think there is a third choice.

Regards,

As a certain MLB umpire told me (to paraphrase): "I don't care if they make me wear pink and purple, as long as they let me keep doing this because it beats working for a living."

T's right. When you take the game you must do what the boss says. If you don't want to do what the boss says: don't work in that league.

As stated by several posters on the other board: It appears that LL wants to give coaches time to file a protest with umpires after the game has concluded for any possible violation of the mandatory play rule.

To do so, many LL districts, it appears, are making umpires stay on the field until the team handshakes are over. (Basically, the coaches have until the handshakes are over in which to file a protest). While I disagree with the manner in which they are requiring this protest to be lodged (i.e. must tell the umpires before the umpires leave the field), it is their REQUIRED mechanic so you must use it if you accept the game.

I personally refuse to deal with many issues in LL Baseball (or any other league of that age group) so I choose #2: I don't work them.

Thus minimizing the ability of a team to lodge a "before the umpires leave the field" protest.

Rcichon, was this request for that particular game, or has waiting on the mound been the standard for the whole tournament? Either way, it seems like a reasonable request. Odd are, that if there were late game protestable issues those would surface immediately following the game. I don't see those happening after the hand shake line.

The only problem I might have is the asking of the manager's, "are we all set?" He better be coming to me with a problem, as I'm not going looking for them.

I echo TEE if you want to work these games then you do as instructed or refuse.

One of the problems is that there is no Official LL Umpire association ala a Summer or HS umpires asociation. As umpires we stick together and if a league ever requested us to "hang around" after the game my assignor would tell that league where to go meaning NO UMPIRE would work those games.

LL is different because there is no ONE association that all LL umpires belong to. It is basically volunteer (however, more and more LL associations are going to paid umpires for a variety of reasons)

In your situation there might be many LL Umpires who are "itching" to get a LL Distrct game and would do almost anything to get one so if you refuse who cares.

Personally I wouldn't work any game in which the UIC instructed me to "hang around"

Summary: If you do not want to hang around simply refuse the assignment. For what it's worth think about getting HS Certified and getting paid for your services and NOT have to hang around after the game. We simply drop the baseballs at the plate or give them to the home coach (whatever the protocol is in one's area) greet our partner and go home. If someone wants to appeal they better do so in a hurry.

Pete Booth

Absolutely correct, Rich !

Why would you want to deprive a team of their opportunity to lodge a legal protest? An MPR protest cannot be lodged until after the last out is recorded and must be lodged before the umpires leave the field. As others have said, if you don't want to follow the guidelines of the league you represent, don't work their games.


Tim.

Tim,

If you looked at my first post, the District Administrator and the UIC for the district have instructed us to do this for this reason. I AM following their guidelines.

It's not like I'm hard to find after the last out. We don't teleport off the field.

Thankfully, my district and state treat LL as baseball and we leave as we normally do after any other game. I'll let you know what they instruct at my regional.

BTW, I'll do as I'm told by the tournament director (or UIC) regardless of my personal feelings for it.

And I think dropping the baseballs at the plate is the most disrespectful thing an umpire can do. I hand mine to a home player or assistant coach. There's rarely a need to leave so quickly that you can't do that.

Regardless if you are getting paid for LL or not, when you work the tourney you should work according to the rules and procedures put forth by the TD. Otherwise, don't bother working.

It's not so hard
 

It's really not that hard to follow these instructions. The crew gathers at the plate while both teams shake hands on the field. The umps walk onto the field as soon as the coaches come togther. Adults exchange final pleasantries and leave asap. It looks professional, and gives coaches an opportunity to select better umpires, come tournament time.

By the way, where's the fire? :rolleyes:

You really want coaches selecting "better" umpires.

Coaches have no role in selecting umpires in any LL I've worked in.

Thanks all, thanks for your input.

I hand them to HC or Asst of home team if the game has been civil. Otherwise I roll them to the dugout on my way out. I have never dropped them at the plate.

Seems like we are all a little different...I certainly don't leave them on the plate and I don't roll them to the dugout. I either find a coach or player to hand them to on the way out or I leave them in an obvious spot near the opening to the dugout. If I do the latter, I try to get a coach'a attention as to where I left them. If I know that he doesn't really want to talk to me about anything, then I skip the notification.

Lawrence

I think the TD is misguided in his instructions but agree that you should work the game the way you are told. I don't race off the field at the end of the game anyway. If I'm in the field I jog to my partner then walk off the field. That should provide the coach an oppertunity to reach me if needed.

I would think the umpires standing on the mound would lead to more ejections rather than more protests being filed.

Rich as I said it's about protocol and what is the accepted practice in one's area. What might seem disrspectful to you is perfectly acceptable somewhere else which is why I prefaced my response with (the accepted protocol in one's area)

Also, what is so disrespectful about dropping the balls at the plate area. It's not like the PU is slamming them down etc. We each have our own opinion, but simply placing the balls (dropping them) at the Plate is No Big deal.



Which is exactly what I said in my response so I do not know what this comment is for. I agree with you on this point.

Do not know about your association Rich, but in mine our ASSIGNOR is the person whom we listen to not some local TD.

Pete Booth

Hmmm,
 

Pete:

I am with Rich here.

We have just passed a directive in Oregon high school baseball that during a game all balls that are returned to the plate umpire during the game are to be handed to that umpire.

We no longer will tolerate balls being tossed in from base coaches or balls rolled out to the PU.

If we demand this we CERTAINLY feel that it is just a disrespectful for our umpire to drop the balls at the plate.

Dropping the balls at the plate would not be tolerated in this neck of the woods.

Regards,

"Some local TD?" Could you show any less respect for the guy running the tournament?

I'll never understand why some umpires want to make it so difficult and ensure there are hard feelings in these situations.

Let's say I'm the TD of the LL tournament. I come up to the umpires and say, "Little League protocol requires that the umpires be available X minutes after the game because of the potential of MPR protests." You're still going to drop the balls and run?

And yes, I find dropping the balls horribly disrespectful. I normally put them back in the box (they came from) in the dugout or hand them to a coach/player on the way out. I can remember dropping them once in the past 5 years and it's because the home team wanted to argue a time limit and wouldn't take the baseballs.

In an ideal world, yes.
 

When not left to umpire associations or assignors, coaches select umpires who they are more familiar with over umpires they do not know very well. I agree it would equal the playing field if new umpires had a chance to introduce themselves to a coach after a game evaluation. An assignor will easily cave in to a coach's negative comments about a particular new umpire, based on the outcome of the last game played. Ever seen good young umpires walk away from the game once they realize those "clicks" affect the choice assignments? I believe introducing a shot of "professionalism" between coach and umpire may help innoculate one against forming this unfair negative opinion. Unless it hurts somehow, why not try to comply with the league administrator's request and wait until the players begin to leave.

When negotiating our last agreement, the local American Legion proposed that their coaches and board would select tournament umpires. We countered that the umpire association would select the coaches. They dropped their proposal.

Rich again it's an area by area "thing" which IMO is getting "lost in the translation"

Your "kneck of the wood" is different than mine and there is nothing wrong with that. It's like comparing someone raised in the South Bronx in NY to the suburbs.

Also, my assignments whether LL, Legion CBL etc. do not come from ANY TD. My assignments come from my assignor. If my ASSIGNOR said

"Pete do you want to work in this weekends LL Tournament and by the way the TD wants the umpires to "hang around" xx minutes after the game, IMO is a different scenario because I now know UP FRONT what is required so I would either say yes or NO (which BTW would be my answer)

Now let's say My assignor simply said

"Pete are you available for this weekends LL Tournament and I say yes and he gives me the time, date and location of the game. I now arrive at the field and the TD comes over and says

"Hey guys we want you to "hang around" xx minutes after the game. In that situation I don't care what the TD said I am following our ASSOCIATION Protocol which is to either drop the balls at the plate area or toss the balls to the HT, greet our partner and LEAVE.

IMO asking umpires to "hang around" is DISRESPECTFUL. Suppose there was a controversial call which ended the game. You now want the umpires to hang around and take abuse because you are worried about giving the teams ample time to appeal? Give me a break

Coaches have ample time to appeal at the end of the game.

In a nutshell for the most part hanging around after the game is over can lead to nothing but trouble whether it's LL, Legion etc.

Also, if I worked in your association I would FOLLOW whatever protocol was established which is the main point I was trying to make.

Pete Booth

If a tournament director asked me to hang around the mound area before exiting after a game, I would explain why that wasn't a good idea and why we don't do that. If he then insisted that this was part of the job, I would explain that he needed to find another umpire.

That's fair enough. But those are the things I don't have to worry about in LL tourneys. The coaches simply don't act this way if they want to continue participating in this (or future) years.

No, a common experience when one team has lost and is looking for any excuse other than they were outcoached and outplayed.