Complaints, Change And Resistance
 

Pete Booth posted about the state of officiating, the lack of recruits, the whole situation is deteriorating. (Pete, I apologize if I overstate).

Thi Forum is full of complainers, about how we are mistreated, how much we are under paid, yada yada yada.

I come along and say "why not challenge what we assume to know, let's take a fresh look at things, maybe we are part of the problem, part of the disease". Which we are. Not a popular opinion.

Expected.

If things are going to change for umpires, we had best remove ourselves from the past. The past disservices us. We are not substantially progressed since I started in 1965. The same abuse issues, lack of proper pay, respect..nothing much has changed. In 40+ years, just think about that. I would imagine that historically umpires could go back 60 more. :(

I understand that you have to umpire for the money. I have. Never was ashamed to collect that hard earned paycheck especially when I was calling drunks at 1300 for $6 a game and having to call the police for escorts and arrests. With my family sitting in the parking lot.

Just a thought. FYI

I swear if I see you type that one more time I'm going to have a fit.

Gas Money, time off the normal job in some cases, not to mention buying equipment hardly makes umpiring a profitable venture. Some members here have outlined situations where they're paying out to umpire in the end with all their random fees. The money's helpful, but it's awful low on my personal list of why I do it.

Some umpire for the money. Don't generalize.

If you take money for working a game, you umpire for the money. Now you might not only umpire for money and you are motivated by other factors. But if you do not umpire for the money, you do not take any cash or check that is given to you. Umpiring for money is not a bad thing.

Peace

Understood; I think it's more the context in which it's used that I disagree with. It sounded to me like he's saying we're just out there to collect a check, which can be disagreeable IMO.

The ignore list is a wonderful thing. Give it a try and you'll never see this idiot's posts again.

I don't know about you guys, But I UMPIRE FOR MONEY, I DO NOT UMPIRE FOR THE MONEY! that is a huge difference.

I don't umpire for the money, but I sure as hell (with some exceptions) wouldn't do it for free.

:D I would not work for free. If I have no value then I can not offer any.

Are you kidding? Work for money! I just hand over the check to the Mrs..


She's buying a 46" LCD TV for herself later this week.;)

World Series Party at Forest Ump's house!!!!!!!!!!!

Epilepsy is a horrible disease, you have my sympathies. :(

Thats' pretty simple and well put.
Sure ain't.

:D Value is not always money bound. :D

Then don't take any.

Then you umpire for the money.

Then explain it to us.

Damn, tell Jenkins your's is busted. Anyone who calls a fellow umpire a "rat" as you did canadaump, I hope to God I am on his Ignore List. Include anyone who would listen to your bleating and do so because you so commanded.

Many are, you, hell if I know, if the plate shoe fits......

I didn't, you went off on a rant. First, umpiring is profitable in most cases. Second, the number of umpires who aren't profitable are in the few not the many. Third, profitability is what drives umpiring which is why I said that umpires need those checks and that is the main reason why we can't stand tall for the changes that need to be made. Labor Econ 101.

The money is "helpful", stop taking it will determine how helpful it is. When I stopped taking it, it was a real issue. I thought that I would receive some kind of freedom, turns out, at first, it made me more skeptical as to why I was out there in the first place. Later, nothing really changed EXCEPT that my attitude did. I have no obligation to coaches and parents because I am a hired hand.

What I learned is if you take the pay, those who pay take ownership of you. Say all you like, but the psychology is still there. If you don't, then that relationship ends.

You would be wrong. I take the pay every single time and no one owns me. Part of the deal is to get paid. I could give a damn whom pays me for a game. I just want to be paid for what I am there to do. My obligation is only to the assignor or league I may work for. The schools or home team usually pays because that is their obligation to do so.

Peace

If you think that you are not emotionaly or psychologically influenced by taking pay, you are either in denial and/or out of touch with your real feelings.

I see this constantly on this Forum, and with hundreds of umpires I have worked with. I had the same puffy chested stance myself.

Who wants to admit being under the thumb of the Payor? Especially when we are abused, underpaid and at their whim and call? It is degrading, isn't it?

So the answer is often " no one owns me"; ain't the case. No matter what, if you take the pay, you are owned.

For outward appearance, umps talk tall " I won't do this or that", "I call the shots, not those who pay me". BS, puffy chested talk.

Umps are human beings, with egos, most of us have been terribly abused; we need the paycheck and no one stands up for us. What do we have left?

Puffy chested self esteem. What a sad comment that is on our society that we are so undevalued. :mad:

By your definition everyone is always under someone's thumb. When you pay to have you hair cut, they are under your thumb. When you go to work, you are under your bosses thumb.

Or you can look at it as a business transaction. That is why in the state of Ohio I am labeled a contractor. The HS contracts with me to perform a piece of work under certain conditions and I sign a contract that obligates both of us.

When I "contract" to umpire a ball game, it is under certain conditions. I am an independent contractor performing "piece of work" "umpiring a ball game" for a certain amount of money under established rules that I will enforce and they can not change.

That must be a record - what was it, 9 ignored posts in a row? How liberating.

If'n I don'ts get paid, how's I ever gonna gets me a HSM to protects me grape when I forgets to WATCH THE F"N BALL!!!!!?

Total BS. Maybe you are influenced by who pays you, I am not. I know many other umpires and officials that are not either. You need to meet more human beings that do not give a damn what others think. All humans are not influenced by others. Some people move to their own beat and what happens in officiating is no different.

Peace

For me it was 8 in a row, but who's counting? :)

I'm 58. In my life, I've had easy jobs and hard jobs, and invariably the easier a job is, the more it pays; the harder it is, the less it pays. I'm not talking necessarily about enjoyment, just difficulty.

This was true in my first job, the hardest one I ever had, teaching in a public high school (for peanuts). Far easier was training people at large companies—for vastly more $$. Even within the large companies, the easiest jobs paid the most. Easier still was sitting home and assigning other people to do the work, which paid even more.

You know that people working for minimum wage don't have easy jobs.

Umpiring is enjoyable, but it is hard work. But what's easier (and more fun), a game between two good college teams or a rec league walkfest that pays far less? See my point?

Y'all cain't ignore 'em .........
 

.......... if'n y'all keep quotin' 'em up !!!

You can't fix stupid - Ron White



Arnold, your signature: How appropos!

If you think that you are not emotionaly or psychologically influenced by taking pay, you are either in denial and/or out of touch with your real feelings.

An umpire is a member of the administration of a league. He is paid to administer and enforce the rules of the game as written. If you choose not to enforce the rules then you don't work for the league, even if you volunteer to do so at no pay.

In other words you cannot " do your own thing" , even for free.

Just a thought. FYI

The leagues go to great lengths to divorce the umpires from the leagues for reasons beneficial to the leagues and detrimental to umpires. They call us independent contractors so our actions or inactions don't reflect upon them. We are not members of league administration.

You can "do your own thing" even for pay--that's the very nature of being an independent contractor. If they don't like it they can choose not to rehire you.

They call us independent contractors so they don't have to pay for worker's compensation insurance.

More than that. No requirement for withholding, less restrictions on defaulted child support, no taxable payroll, no employee insurance liabities, and a 1,000 other reasons.

Not the least of which is ICs hiding taxable income.

My experience too.

Sure do. ;)

The answer is simple. Does that person, company or entity pay me; if they do, how important to their existence or lifestyle are those $$$.

Being an IC means nothing. The only real question is, "Do I need the money
" (either as IC or employee). If you do, then all the chest pounding about how independent we are is nothing but chest pounding. If you really don't, then don't take it.

1) I will send you one of my HSMs

2) With an English learning program diskette in the same box.

Or withhold income tax.

And in an attempt to limit their liability. Employers are generally liable for the wrongful actions of their employees. They are generally not liable for the wrongful actions of their indepedent contractors. Its called Respondeat Superior liability.

This is an oversimplified statement, but it conveys the gist.

Being an Independent Contrator has nothing to do with being able to work the job anyway you want. It means you are responsible for your taxes, insurance, medical insurance, etc. Which also means that the expenses of performing your job, travel, equipment, dues, some forms of insurance, etc, are deductible from your gross pay.

Independent does not mean being able to change the job desription or " do your own thing".

Being an independent contractor has a helluva lot to do with being able to work a job the way you want. The control of the choice of methods in completing the work is one of the defining differences between an employee and an IC.

Being an IC doesn't necessarily mean your expenses are fully deductible, either. You have to operate with a profit motive.

such a great feature
for those not using, here is a taste:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4761/fitumpgr1.jpg

it is a great feature, but aren't you dying to see what idiocies come out next, I'm considering an unignore, because I hate not knowing. LOL Then again this feature does keep me smarter.

The problem is though that you don't know what new name PWL/StevenTyler/FitUmp56 is gonna post under next.:D

Every ignored post has a link in the upper right corner: "View this post"

Frankly, I don't use it much.

Really?

That may be true if you are cutting grass.

But try making up your own rules for baseball and see how far you get.