Balk Followed by Hit
 

R1. Pitcher does not come to a complete stop before pitching. Batter hits the ball and reaches first safely. R1 goes to third on single.

Am I correct that in OBR the single stands and the runner stays on 3rd?

If so, is this the case in FED as well?

Yes, you are correct. OBR is a delayed dead ball. Continuous play is allowed to take place. If the b/r gets to at least 1st and all runners get to their advance base, the balk is disregarded.

FED is an immediate dead ball.

In OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball situation. If as a result of the pitch, every runner AND the batter advance at least one base then the balk is ignored. Otherwise the pitch is ignored and the balk enforced.

So in your situation, the balk would be ignored because R1 advanced at least to second AND the batter safely reached first.

From what I've seen on this website I believe using the FED rulebook a balk is an immediate deadball situation, so the runner would be advanced to second and the batter remains at the plate.

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

Actually, the more recommended method for FED is "That's a balk...Time!"

This way, your balk call remains consistent when using either rule set.

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

OBR - R1, 3-2 count, balk is called and the pitch delivered is a ball. is the balk ignored? ball 4 puts the BR on 1st and forces R1 on 2nd.

how about the same situation with R2 only? obviously ball 4 would put the BR on first but R2 would not advance. i imagine in this situation the balk would be enforced and the pitch ignored.

You disappoint me. Surely you own a rule book.

OBR 8.05 Penalty

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

sorry, i'm in my office and i don't carry my books with me at all times. also can't access mlb.com for the rules.

how about the following...

R2, 3-2 count, ball 4 wild pitch, BR goes to first, R2 goes to 3rd.

or

R2, 3-2 count, strike 3 wild pitch,BR goes to first, R2 goes to 3rd.

does a dropped 3rd strike wild pitch qualify as "or otherwise"?



The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

There is no "proper" way to call a FED balk. Mechanics are not discussed in the rulebook and the FED mechanics manual is best thrown out when received.

C'mon, Rich. You're right about pitching the FED ump manual, but surely FED is entitled to their view concerning the enforcement of their balk rule. We could refer to this as the "proper" way.

Am I missing your larger point? You're not usually one to quibble...

Yes, I think you're missing the larger point. Rich is talking about the way the balk is called, not the enforcement of the rule.

We just had this discussion in the following thread. Rich suggested the way that I quoted, and I didn't hear that it was a crutch at that time. I don't see it as a "crutch," but as a practical way of doing things.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...hat%27s+a+balk

Exactly. In other words, someone with a FED manual -- does it actually prescribe the words and the order in which they're to be said?

Even if it DOES, it really doesn't matter unless you use the FED mechanics for EVERYTHING else.

Rich,

Verbatim from the 2007 FED Umpire Manual (#22 on p.17 for those following along at home):

And you throw this gem away?!?!? I find it makes an excellent coaster.

JM

Thanks for the URL showing at least I'm consistent.

To me, practical would be to call time immediately in FED to let everyone know that play is over and keep the whining to a minimum should the pitcher pitch and the batter hit the ball.


As I said in the thread you referenced...When I can't remember the code under which I'm working, I'll retire.

My God. Are we supposed to throw our hands up in the traditional Smitty method -- as if I was being held up at a liquor store?

It really has nothing at all to do with whether one can or can't remember which rule set is being used. It has more to do with style, as it just looks cooler to point and say "that's a balk." followed immediately by "Time." The one second delay between the two phrases is not going to confuse anyone or cause any whining.

The call of "Time" can mean just about any reason for killing the ball, whereas if it is preceded by "That's a balk," there is no confusion as to why it is being called.

Garth, by all means do it the way you want. Just don't consider those who do it differently to be using it as a crutch, or because they don't know WTF they are doing, because that is just not the case.

Question.
If the traditional Smitty style works best for a given situation, would you rather be effective or stylish?

As you should, good call!

Interesting approach. Officiating strategies by whine meter.Then retire since no one knows the entire code and much left open for interp...as is consistently demonstrated here...by you.

No need to respond, I'm on your Ignore List, as you have publicly announced. Hmmm, wonder why that is?

That is not what was being discussed.

The two methods being discussed were the OBR....


"That's a balk" (Wait for play to end) "TIME! That's a balk."

And FED:

"TIME! That's a balk."

There can be, and often is, a significant difference.

Do what you want. I believe in this instance there is a right and wrong.

They may not know the entire code or understand all the intricacies of how to apply the rules of a particular rules code, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say most here know what code they're working under during a game.

I don't think there's anything for you to wonder about.


Tim.

"That's a balk" is IMMEDIATELY followed by TIME in FED games. There is no difference at all.

Sigh.

Do what you'd like. Write what you'd like. I've explained to what I was responding. I'm done here.

GB

This is one rule I truly wish FED would change, because when it happens in NCAA or OBR, I almost always get the usual, "Hey! The ball is dead! He can't go anywhere" kind of responses.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here ever called a balk in FED and had the batter smack a home run, only to oh so happily nullify those runs? :D