Catharsis

[Publius]

Originally Posted by wish7694

JJ

... but remember, you do not have the pressure of your record in part determining your continued employment.

That's crap. Umpires who work at the professional level, and at the highest levels of amateur ball (as does the person to whom you were responding), have the pressure of their record TOTALLY determining their continued employment.

The big difference is that when a coach is let go, there's a press release and a couple of interviews. With umpires, it happens that one day, they just aren't there anymore.

[wish7694]

Publius, I certainly do not mean to imply that umpires are not evaluated and critiqued, certainly to a great degree at the professional and collegiate level. But the reality is that high school umpires have MUCH better job security than the coaches they interact with.

This does not in any way justify inappropriate behavior by a coach towards umpires. I am just trying to present a point of view that is probably not expressed often on this board.

[ozzy6900]

To be honest with you wish7694, I have had many a player question a call here and there. It is part of the game. But when they get out of line, I simply remind them that I am the umpire, not them. I can pretty much count the players that I have ejected for stepping over the line (this does not count the players that get ejected due to rule violations aka malicious contact and the like).

To follow a player or coach that is walking away is just wrong! I don't teach that, I do not condone that and if I am observing an umpire on our board, his report won't be too favorable! Now, I carry this over to the summer leagues that I am involved with also and it has cut down on the problems over the years.

Head coaches and managers have the most freedom when it comes to argument. If a manager or head coach is coming out to me, I know it is not to discuss the world economy but it is also a time when I have to keep an open ear. I try to treat them with respect and expect the same in return. I allow them to speak their mind until they have made their point, repeat themselves, or just stop talking. I explain my position and for the most part, they know that the call won't change - the conversation is done! Most managers and head coaches then know it's time to get back to the game.

The trick is respect - a two way street. When it comes to High School or NCAA, we all know that jobs are on the line. I'm going to reason with you and flat out tell you that I am trying to keep you in the game. So if I eject you from a FED game, you really ejected yourself!

The only thing that I can suggest is keep this umpire's face or number embedded in your mind. When you run into him again, handle him with kid gloves and keep your players in line so that he has no reason to eject anyone. If this doesn't work, get hold of his association and lodge a complaint.

Best of luck.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

To be honest with you wish7694, I have had many a player question a call here and there. It is part of the game. But when they get out of line, I simply remind them that I am the umpire, not them. I can pretty much count the players that I have ejected for stepping over the line (this does not count the players that get ejected due to rule violations aka malicious contact and the like).

To follow a player or coach that is walking away is just wrong! I don't teach that, I do not condone that and if I am observing an umpire on our board, his report won't be too favorable! Now, I carry this over to the summer leagues that I am involved with also and it has cut down on the problems over the years.

Head coaches and managers have the most freedom when it comes to argument. If a manager or head coach is coming out to me, I know it is not to discuss the world economy but it is also a time when I have to keep an open ear. I try to treat them with respect and expect the same in return. I allow them to speak their mind until they have made their point, repeat themselves, or just stop talking. I explain my position and for the most part, they know that the call won't change - the conversation is done! Most managers and head coaches then know it's time to get back to the game.

The trick is respect - a two way street. When it comes to High School or NCAA, we all know that jobs are on the line. I'm going to reason with you and flat out tell you that I am trying to keep you in the game. So if I eject you from a FED game, you really ejected yourself!

The only thing that I can suggest is keep this umpire's face or number embedded in your mind. When you run into him again, handle him with kid gloves and keep your players in line so that he has no reason to eject anyone. If this doesn't work, get hold of his association and lodge a complaint.

Best of luck.

ozzy - best post yet. I too coach and umpire. I coach 15-17 and umpire 13-14 and over 18. As an umpire there are some coaches that are just plain jerks. As a coach there are some umpires that are just plain jerks. As a coach you teach your kids respect for the umpire. As an umpire you try to find a way to keep people in the game by defusing a situation. As an umpire the other day I tossed a 13 year old - rung him up on strike 3, he took two steps towards the bench and proceeded to throw the bat like a javelin to the fence some 25' away. Nobody on that side said a word. After the game the kid, no longer in uniform, came up and personally apologized. I suspect his parents had something to do about it, but he was genuinely contrite. I accepted his apology and shook his hand. I could have ignored him but I didn't. Coaches in that league know I'm a fair umpire, but they also know I won't take any crap. You get a lot of respect that way. There are several really bad umpires and I confess I have to bite my tongue, but I do. I do everything I can to set a good example for my players when I am in coaching mode. I think it's pretty clear from the post that wish7694 does the same. I wish him well.

[Eastshire]

Sounds like an ump who is in over his head. I always appreciate a coach who has my back and is on his players when they react improperly.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sounds like an ump who is in over his head. I always appreciate a coach who has my back and is on his players when they react improperly.

More than once over the years I've told my players to chill out. The first meeting of the year for the one's that don't know I tell them:

a) I also umpire;
b) I know the rules better than they do;
c) Any discussions with the umpire will be by me only;
d) One call doesn't decide the game if they do what they are supposed to do;
e) Accept the call and move on; and last
f) I will chew their butts out if they even think about arguing a call - I have and I will and they know it.

[charliej47]

I will honestly say that i have gone out of my way to keep players and coaches in the game. That I have always asked them to stay more than once. I have always remained calm and let them remove themselves. From the way this OP was posted, i think the Ump should be kept down in th ekidie ball.

[mick]

Originally Posted by charliej47

From the way this OP was posted, i think the Ump should be kept down in th ekidie ball.

I think the kiddies deserve better than what you propose. In fact, I think every level deserves better that what you propose.