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-   -   HS Season over, here comes summer ball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/35419-hs-season-over-here-comes-summer-ball.html)

Rich Wed Jun 06, 2007 08:35am

HS Season over, here comes summer ball
 
I finished my high school season yesterday. Worked the plate in a sectional game that really was 2 games in 1:

The line:

Visitors - 00000 - 0
Home - 000(11)x - 11

The game was scoreless through 3.5 innings and I had two seven-or-less pitch innings (someone told me later). We had 3.5 played in about 30 minutes.

Then the wheels fell off. I remember that the first 2 outs of the bottom of the fourth were force outs at the plate. This came after many, many runs were scored. The turning point was when the visiting pitcher hung a 1-2 curveball that the batter drilled to the fence. Before that, visiting F1 had great confidence in the pitch and even had some swinging strikeouts with pitches in the dirt. After that double, though, I don't remember one effective curveball until they finally removed him after 6-7 runs had scored.

I also took a decent velocity fastball (untouched) straight to the helmet somewhere in the middle of the inning. The ringing gave way to nothing, but I ended up with a pretty decent headache an hour or two later. I felt better later in the day. I'm pretty convinced I would've fared no better with a traditional mask on this shot as it hit right on the bars over my forehead.

Linescore for the bottom of the fourth? 11 runs, 5 hits, 6 errors, 2 LOB. And yes, we play with the 10-run-rule, even in the playoffs.

So it was a very strange 1:15 game. And now, it's only summer ball left.

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
I also took a decent velocity fastball (untouched) straight to the helmet somewhere in the middle of the inning. The ringing gave way to nothing, but I ended up with a pretty decent headache an hour or two later. I felt better later in the day. I'm pretty convinced I would've fared no better with a traditional mask on this shot as it hit right on the bars over my forehead.

I took a decent velocity fast ball, not even waved at by the catcher, straight to the mask last night. The mask spun off, as designed. I felt nothing, heard no ringing and never had a heacache. I'm pretty convinced that I'd have heard a ringing and had a headache an hour or two later had I not given away my HSM.

Rich Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I took a decent velocity fast ball, not even waved at by the catcher, straight to the mask last night. The mask spun off, as designed. I felt nothing, heard no ringing and never had a heacache. I'm pretty convinced that I'd have heard a ringing and had a headache an hour or two later had I not given away my HSM.

I'm not sure mine would've fit into that category. It hit at a spot where I don't think the mask would've spun off, but I'm not completely certain, of course.

I did order a new mask last week, so maybe this was just a twist of fate :)

I still think helmets will dominate the game 10-20 years from now. They certainly did take over the catcher's market pretty quickly.

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I still think helmets will dominate the game 10-20 years from now. They certainly did take over the catcher's market pretty quickly.

I agree that eventuallly HSM's will dominate the activity. I understand that at PBUC the administrators encouraged the candidates to at least give an HSM a try to see if it worked for them. I don't yet know how many have done that.

One of the Evans 20 Honor grads wore an HSM during school, but ditched it prior to going to PBUC.

Most of the talk about masks among the PBUC candidates and instructors centered on the traditional mask and finding the right combination of weight and dependability.

Ump18 Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:49am

I have always wondered which provides the best protection. My son who works in the South Atlantic League took a 96MPH foul ball straight back to his West Vest Mask yesterday and suffered a concussion from it. The ball severely bent the bars on his mask.

He has had many discussions with fellow Minor League Umpires and the ones that wear HSM have told him many times that the HSM affords greater protection. He has been reluctant to switch but after yesterday has decided to give the HSM a try.

Not sure which one is better...I guess we will see!

Mark

mcrowder Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:58am

I suspect that maybe your mask was too tight. They are designed to spread out the energy of an impact - if you got a headache from it, too much of the energy transferred to your head, likely indicating the entire thing was too attached to your head.

JRutledge Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:00am

Rich,

When you work summer ball, will you work mostly two man or one man games?

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ump18
I have always wondered which provides the best protection. My son who works in the South Atlantic League took a 96MPH foul ball straight back to his West Vest Mask yesterday and suffered a concussion from it. The ball severely bent the bars on his mask.

He has had many discussions with fellow Minor League Umpires and the ones that wear HSM have told him many times that the HSM affords greater protection. He has been reluctant to switch but after yesterday has decided to give the HSM a try.

Not sure which one is better...I guess we will see!

Mark

If the HSM is ever proven to prevent such injuries, "encouragement" from the leagues, PBUC and insurance carries will speed up their acceptance in pro ball. But so far, there is no evidence that they will do that. The primary safety factor is that they cover more of the head, not that they will prevent of minimize face-on injuries.

I hope you son is okay.

My son recently took the online test to establish his reacton time that will be used as a baseline should he suffer a concussion in the future. It is encouraging to note that PBUC is concerned with the issue.

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder
I suspect that maybe your mask was too tight. They are designed to spread out the energy of an impact - if you got a headache from it, too much of the energy transferred to your head, likely indicating the entire thing was too attached to your head.

To whom is this addressed? The poster reporting the headache was wearing an HSM not a mask.

Mark Dexter Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
My son recently took the online test to establish his reacton time that will be used as a baseline should he suffer a concussion in the future. It is encouraging to note that PBUC is concerned with the issue.

That's probably one of the best measures of concussions, and great to see that leagues are adopting the testing proactively.

Tim C Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:56am

Garth:
 
I find it interesting that the CDC will release a study this month that calls concussions an "epidemic" at the high school level and lower.

This is why we saw this year in the NFHS Rule Book a POE about head injury trauma and the care.

As the NFL slowly admits to the long term effect of brain injuries to their retired players I believe we are on the edge of a new view of head injuries.

We are currently working on articles for the new NFHS magazine that deals with player head injuries . . . I think baseball umpires would be a great source to review for head injuries to sport officials.

Regards,

Tim Christensen

National Federation of High Schools
Publication Committee


"High School Today"

RPatrino Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:02pm

I'm not a physiologist, but do you think the headache that Rich felt was due to the way the shock of the blow was distributed by the HSM? With the traditional mask, the impact of the blow causes the mask to spin and fly off the face, and there is little force actually felt. The mask may sustain damage but not the wearer.

johnnyg08 Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
I'm not a physiologist, but do you think the headache that Rich felt was due to the way the shock of the blow was distributed by the HSM? With the traditional mask, the impact of the blow causes the mask to spin and fly off the face, and there is little force actually felt. The mask may sustain damage but not the wearer.

I'm sure a "physicist" or an engineer might be able to offer some insight as to how the impact is distributed...

bob jenkins Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
I think baseball umpires would be a great source to review for head injuries to sport officials.
[/B]

I think most of us had to have head injuries to take up umpiring. ;)

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
I'm not a physiologist, but do you think the headache that Rich felt was due to the way the shock of the blow was distributed by the HSM? With the traditional mask, the impact of the blow causes the mask to spin and fly off the face, and there is little force actually felt. The mask may sustain damage but not the wearer.

Perhaps it could be from something as simple as the noise of the impact as evidenced by the ringing in his ears.

mcrowder Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
To whom is this addressed? The poster reporting the headache was wearing an HSM not a mask.

I understood that. What does the M stand for again? :)

Should I use the word Helmet instead? If you have too tight a helmet, you're going to feel ALL of the energy of an impact. It shouldn't be loose, but it shouldn't be tight either.

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder
I understood that. What does the M stand for again? :)

My error. I always think of them as masks and helmets. Maybe it should be HSH.

johnnyg08 Wed Jun 06, 2007 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I think most of us had to have head injuries to take up umpiring. ;)

enough said about that one...

Kaliix Wed Jun 06, 2007 02:01pm

While a mask will spin off on some hits, it won't on all of them. If you take a ball straight on, HSM or traditional mask, you are going to feel it. I think that is what Rich was saying, that it was a straight on shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
I'm not a physiologist, but do you think the headache that Rich felt was due to the way the shock of the blow was distributed by the HSM? With the traditional mask, the impact of the blow causes the mask to spin and fly off the face, and there is little force actually felt. The mask may sustain damage but not the wearer.


GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaliix
While a mask will spin off on some hits, it won't on all of them. If you take a ball straight on, HSM or traditional mask, you are going to feel it. I think that is what Rich was saying, that it was a straight on shot.

My mask spins off on hard straight-on shots. Worn properly, e.g. loose enough, even straight on shots will cause it to come off.

Kaliix Wed Jun 06, 2007 02:19pm

With all due respect, if your mask spun off, it wasn't a straight on hit.

:cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
My mask spins off on hard straight-on shots. Worn properly, e.g. loose enough, even straight on shots will cause it to come off.


PeteBooth Wed Jun 06, 2007 02:44pm

Quote:

We are currently working on articles for the new NFHS magazine that deals with player head injuries . . . I think baseball umpires would be a great source to review for head injuries to sport officials.

Regards,

Tim Christensen
Tee since you are working on the article I would be interested in the following as well.

1. The evolution of the "slot" stance. If you look back at old films the umpires were stationed right behind F2 not to the "left of" or "right of" F2

In other words is there more risk of injury by an umpire who uses the "slot" compared to years ago when the umpire was right in back of F2? In the slot we have more risk of taking a straight on shot then if we were behind F2.
Also in calling balls and strikes is it really that drastic of a difference from the "old" school (stationed behind F2) to the new school.

2. The balloon vs. inside chest protector. Today we tend to make fun of any PU using the ballon but my question does the balloon offer more protection than the inside protector?

Thanks

Pete Booth

GarthB Wed Jun 06, 2007 03:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaliix
With all due respect, if your mask spun off, it wasn't a straight on hit.

:cool:

With all due respect, when the mask is loose enough a straight on shot will cause it to "bounce" off. I have never had my mask stay in after a hard shot, no matter the location of the shot.

Kaliix Wed Jun 06, 2007 05:12pm

Yes, exactly. Bounce off and spin off are completely different in this context. When the mask spins off, the mask is deflecting the majority of the force from your face. The energy isn't absorbed, it is transferred into the spinning motion, which is desirable, since that means it isn't going to your face.

A straight on shot though, will bounce the mask off your face, meaning the force transferred to the pads of the mask which then rebounds. In this case, the pads and subsequently the head absorbs the impact. Not a desirable outcome no matter what mask you choose to use, and one that cannot be avoided on those "dead on straight shots". :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
With all due respect, when the mask is loose enough a straight on shot will cause it to "bounce" off. I have never had my mask stay in after a hard shot, no matter the location of the shot.


Mrumpiresir Wed Jun 06, 2007 05:36pm

I've taken my share of shots to the mask in 15 years of umpiring and have not suffered any illl effects. I have had a +POS lightweight for many years and have full confidence in it. The thing I never got used to was the sudden surprise when you get hit. Here you are concentrating on the pitch like you have been doing all day, watching it into the catcher's glove, the flash of a bat and....
KABOOM!!
Love this game.

UmpJM Wed Jun 06, 2007 06:10pm

Last Fall, as I was acquiring gear in anticipation of umpiring the first game of my life, I had to decide whether to get a traditional mask or an HSM. I chose the HSM (Easton Stealth, if anyone's interested) for two primary reasons:

1. Some of the games I would be working would be played on fields with those God-awful "half dome" backstops and I didn't want to get hit by a rebound on the top or back of my head.

2. I saw the video clip last year of the umpire wearing a mask getting whacked up side the head by the batter's bat on his follow through and wasn't interested in having that experience.

3. I wanted to "feel" well protected because I thought it would help me combat "flinching" my head.

Oops, that's three.

So far, I've worked a grand total of 48 games - everything from 12U-14U Travel to HS Frosh/Soph to Colt & Sr. Colt to MSBL. I've taken a number of good shots off foul balls to the helmet, both direct to the "mask" part (like right between the eyes) as well as more "glancing" shots off the helmet part. So far, I haven't had even a hint of a headache from these shots, nor have I experienced any "ringing in the ears". A couple of shots were kind of loud, but nothing very extreme. I've read a couple of comments on this board about the HSM being uncomfortable on hot days, but I haven't noticed that yet.

So far, to me, the biggest drawback is that it's kind of "clumsy" to handle when dealing with lineup cards (or maybe I'm just clumsy).

Now, I'm shopping for a "traditional mask" - not because I'm displeased with the HSM, but because I want to try it. I'll continue to wear the HSM on the half dome backstop fields.

JM

David B Wed Jun 06, 2007 08:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
With all due respect, when the mask is loose enough a straight on shot will cause it to "bounce" off. I have never had my mask stay in after a hard shot, no matter the location of the shot.

Exactly what I've found. Everytime I've been hit my mask always spins to the side somewhat.

Thanks
David

DG Wed Jun 06, 2007 09:15pm

I tracked an inside fastball right to the front of my mask two years ago, catcher didn't get a glove on it. It jumped off the front of my head and landed at my feat. It was a direct shot. Most of the time the shots are not that direct and it spins off.

PFISTO Thu Jun 07, 2007 08:14am

I had asked this question eairler but it fits in here. I tried an HSM about a month ago for all the obiovous reasons SAFETY. Well I didn't like it as it was way to loud calling pitches as I have a big mouth. But I did feel safe with it more than with my Honigs mask. On one game I used a catchers helmet without the brim on it as I was working a low backstop game. I must say that with that combo I felt just as safe as with the HSM. The only problem was I didn't have the proper look....... And just last week I took a good 80mph foul tip straight in the face my mask turned and I was a little stunned and my jaw felt funny for a bit but no headace. How do you guys feel about using the catchers helmet???? I'm telling you it works great

UMP25 Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B
Exactly what I've found. Everytime I've been hit my mask always spins to the side somewhat.

Thanks
David

Ditto. I've always hated that, but I realize it's a good thing that my mask gives rather than being too snug on my head.

RPatrino Thu Jun 07, 2007 02:26pm

Now that our FED season is over and we are starting in on our variations of OBR games, does anyone share my reoccuring nightmare?

"TIME.....thats a balk".....CRACK (DING)......Home run"...

(I don't use that mechanic, though, do you?)

LakeErieUmp Thu Jun 07, 2007 02:54pm

Had it...and thought I lived it.

A 16-17 year old city travel league two years ago. I hadn't done one before, and when I got to the field PU told me they use Fed rules.

SO, 7th inning, I'm still in cruise control as BU, one on, and pitcher pulled some obvious balk move (two years ago, who remembers). Still in HS mode I'm "balk!" - just as batter meets ball with bat and sends same over F8's head. I stood there for a moment living my nightmare - until I remembered "no wait, I'm right, they said Fed rules!"

Too close for comfort though.

LMan Thu Jun 07, 2007 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
Now that our FED season is over and we are starting in on our variations of OBR games, does anyone share my reoccuring nightmare?

"TIME.....thats a balk".....CRACK (DING)......Home run"...

(I don't use that mechanic, though, do you?)


heh. Another reason to use the correct mechanic on the switchover (FED----> OBR) :)

SanDiegoSteve Thu Jun 07, 2007 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
Now that our FED season is over and we are starting in on our variations of OBR games, does anyone share my reoccuring nightmare?

"TIME.....thats a balk".....CRACK (DING)......Home run"...

(I don't use that mechanic, though, do you?)

I never really had a problem with getting the different codes mixed up, as I would be assigned HS games all week, and Pony, Colt, or Palomino games (as well as other alphabet leagues) on Saturdays, and then various adult leagues on Sundays. Switching back and forth between rule sets was standard procedure.

johnnyg08 Thu Jun 07, 2007 03:48pm

You can always use the OBR mechanic...even if you're playing FED rules, to use the OBR mechanic...you can still place the runners...and who cares if you he hits a homerun...you're safe...Yes, I believe in using the proper mechanics...but if you want to be safe...use OBR balk mechanics...what do you guys think?

Rich Thu Jun 07, 2007 04:16pm

OBR: "That's a BALK!"

FED: "That's a BALK! TIME!"

What's the problem?

RPatrino Thu Jun 07, 2007 04:35pm

Not a problem, Rich!! That's what I do.

As we all know, anything that happens after we call balk in Fed is meaningless. I have worked with those who call TIME, then Balk during Fed games and thats problematic when moving to other rule sets.

GarthB Thu Jun 07, 2007 04:40pm

I don't see a problem.

When I can't remember which I code I'm working, I will retire.


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