First Base Coach
 

Situation: R2, batter hits an easy ground ball to second but F4 throws the ball low and gets by the first baseman. The first base coach makes like a hockey goalie and sticks out his foot and stops the ball, picks it up and throws it to the pitcher.

The ball would have easily gone into DBT. I called time and left the runners on first and third. Did I make the right call and if not what should I have done? Didn't get any flack on the call and infact the offensive manager yelled across the diamond to give his coach hell!! :)

If that's the case, penalize accordingly. BR to second, R2 scores, i.e., two bases from TOP.

Huh? You're going to reward the offense for action by an offensive coach?

Unofficial interp.: Grab a bat and beat the coach senseless. Problem solved.

I think it would be much easier if you just "grab a bat and beat the coach"....the rest is a given.:)

If the O-coach picks up the live ball with his hat, are you going to give the BR third?

Be careful, or some coach is going to figure out how to get all of his runners to score from your awards on every safe single.

Heck no - why reward the OFFENSE for the offensive coach's blunder. Dead ball - leave the runners alone. He's lucky he's not getting an out from the deal, but we can't do that unless his interference prevented a possible out.

Good point. :)

While everyone else is jumping on C'monBlue for that less than intelligent remark, no one has answered your question.

By keeping the runners from advancing any farther, you have effectively penalized the offense for the offensive Rat's stupidity!

Well done!

I was pretty sure I was safe with not awarding bases. I was wondering if I should have called time. I know that if a base coach inadvertantly gets hits by a thrown ball, it is play on. However, just wondering what the rule is with regards to deliberate interference.

It didn't happen last night, but what would have happened if R2 tried to run home because of an assumed base award and the defense was able to tag him between 3rd and home.

Even bigger question, how would you score the out: F4-offensive coach-F1-F2.

With this sitch...what is the official rule though...I could see this happening...wouldn't you kill the play immediately and place the runners where they would've reached had the rat not stopped the ball...OR, if this is the first play by the offense and the runner had not safely reached 1B at the TOT that you'd place the runners on 2B and 3B?? since the coach intentionally stopping the ball qualifies as "dead ball territory"?? Just like if he threw the ball into the stands while making a play on BR at 1B is any of this accurate?? Just asking fellas...I don't have my RB's here w/ me today to consult...then would the FED/OBR rulings be the same in this sitch??

You can't keep the ball live if you're giving base awards...runners have to follow the touch provisions on the bases, but the defense can't make a play on a runner that's being awarded a base...if this is deliberate interference, the play is dead right now.

Why is this not considered interference and someone called out? This was a deliberate act prevented the defense from making a play on the ball.

Peace

I see what you're saying JRutledge...but I disagree...who are you going to call out on this play?? you can't make up rules...

Both runners had already touched their respective bases by the time the coach touched the ball, R2 was running on the pitch and it would have been bang-bang at first if the ball had been caught. Who would you have called out?

doesn't matter where the runner was when the ball became dead...bases in this sitch are awarded (might be awarded) from the time of throw by the infielder...which is defined as being where the runner was when the infielder (in this case) released the ball from his hand. I'm pretty sure on this...

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. The award on a ball going out of play on the first play by an infielder is 2 bases from the runner's position at the Time of the Pitch, not the throw. If the ball had gone out of play, R2 would have been awarded home, and the BR awarded 2nd.

Tibear was correct in not awarding any extra bases because of the buffoonery of the first base coach.

First of all we can rule on anything not specifically covered in the rulebook. Secondly, if a coach purposely interfered with a live ball, I am not going to just kill the ball. I am going to penalize their team. I am going to likely get an out on a runner that was involved in the play or get the runner closest to home. Now unless you can show me a specific application in FED or NCAA that is what I am going to do (I do not care about OBR, I do not work games under those rules). I just do not think it is right to just let everyone stay safe for a deliberate act by an offensive coach.

Peace

The ball was dead when he stopped it intentionally - then decide if his interference prevented an out --- if so, call the out, if not, play is over. In the case you mention, if R2 ran home, he would have been doing so during a dead ball ... so you have nothing.

It can be, if there was a potential play to be interfered with... like I said, he's lucky to not have an out called on this. But if there's no play to be interfered with, it's just a dead ball. (For example, say we have an F9 in place to stop the overthrow, and we have a runner still advancing --- I can see an out here. But with a "normal" overthrow of first, the interference did not likely prevent a play.

Johnny ... that's twice - why do you think there should (or even might) be any awards made here?

Interfering with a live ball is not necessarily interfering with a play on a runner.

I did not say it was. But you have a coach that purposely changed the direction of a live ball. I am telling what I would do, if you want everyone to be safe that is your right to do that. If the rules committees want a specific application, then they should list a penalty or remedy for the situation. All the rules say in FED (I will have to look up NCAA) is a coach cannot purposely interfere with a fair ball on purpose.

Peace

I don't remember any specific rule set mentioned in the OP. Tibear can fill us in on what type of game this was. I usually figure OBR unless stated otherwise. I really doubt this was an NCAA game.

My feeling is that the offense was punished enough by not getting a base award that they otherwise would have. R2 could not advance past 3rd base, and the BR had to stay at first. Offense punished.

I don't think I ever took a stance on an award...also, if the BR successfully reached 1B before the infielder made the first play...this would be a Time of Throw sitch...not a time of pitch...I agree with you SDS...on what you say about Time of Pitch...my most recent post (not this one) wasn't referencing the OP, when I reread my most recent above post, was rather unclear...but I did post assuming that the runner had reached 1B prior to Time of Throw...oh well...not fighting to be right/wrong/or other, just posting...

Being from Canada, we only use OBR. There are slight modifications for the different ages but everywhere in Canada uses OBR.

From what I hear about the differences in rule sets in the states I prefer our philosophy. When you watch a game of baseball, it doesn't matter where or who is playing, the rules are all the same. Makes it easier for everyone to keep things straight.

(However, last night I still had to explain why a runner was allowed to steal second on a foul tip! Bantam AA team (second highest level for 14-15 year olds), can't understand how some coaches still don't know the basic rules once they reach that level.)

Johnny, this would be a TOT situation only if EVERY runner AND the BR had reached their next base BEFORE F4 had thrown the ball.

However, in this case, it was a bang-bang play at first (but no catch) so the ball had been thrown before the BR had reached first.

I see your bang, bang play reference...at 1B...no way is this TOT...yes, I agree...if the play was made by an infielder...which is on topic with the OP...I reread the PBUC ump manual on page 25...where there are three very clearly written interpretations.

Ok.... no stance (despite what you said above) ... I'll rephrase.

Why are you talking about awards AT ALL with regard to this topic?

I think those who are talking about awards are doing it for "what if" situations, as in "what if the coach had not interfered, and the ball had really gone out of play."

The OP sitch is cut and dried: No base awards.

JR talks about "weak interference"

On this play as soon as the coach picked up the ball we have

1. TIME
2. That's interference
3. On most interferences somebody is out.

In the case presented, I would call "weak interference". It depends upon where R2 was at the moment the coach intentionally picked up the ball. If R2 had not yet reached third base I would keep R2 at second and the BR at first.

In addition, if there was anyway possible I am looking to get an out when a coach makes a deliberate move in which he did.

Pete Booth

I would love to see the 'glassed over' look on a coaches eyes when trying to explain the concept of 'weak interference' to him. Worth the price of admission in my opinion.

Describing just about any rule to a coach you get the same glassed over look. So why would this be any different?

I had a college game last year and the 1st base coach got in the way of a pop foul ball. The coach was standing in the box and never moved to get out of the way. The coach claimed he had the right to be there because they were in the box. So if they will argue that simple rule where the rulebook is very clear, what do you think they will do with a situation that is not at all clear in the rulebook?

Peace

Except in your situation, Rut, if the first base coach's contact was both blatant and avoidable, you have interference. If neither or only one or the other, it's nothing.

fair enough on the award conversation...but aren't what if's part of what makes this MB a good tool for umps...some situations are cut and dry...but is a good opportunity to expand on a sitch with some other angle...but in the smae breath it makes sense to keep on topic w/ OPs