NCAA Softball Umpires
 

Now I know this is a baseball forum, and I do umpire baseball, but in watching the NCAA softball tournament this weekend, especially the umpires, has anybody noticed that they are like robots on the field. What I mean by that, is they have no style like baseball umpires. They are mechanical in their calls. Strike calls are right arm straight up no style, and on bang bang plays same mechanic straight up with the right arm. Baseball umpires have their own style in calling strikes, and at least they sell the call on bang bang plays and make it look good.

Yes, it's been noticed and commented upon. It's what the NCAA softball group wants. shrug.

I am going to make an assumption (could be a mistake as with all assumptions) but getting high level softball games is similar to high level baseball games.

Politics are most likely involved and also you have to umpire "THEIR" way if you want to get the BIG game.

I do not think they are acting "robotic" because they want to be as it stands to reason that each umpire has their own "punch out" mechanic, banger mechanics etc., however, the umpires if they want to get the BIG game better umpire the way their association wants and that's what we have here.

Pete Booth

This mechanic keeps the purse from sliding off the shoulder.
:D

New style of ball bag?

Amazing how that pitch 8 inches outside is called a strike, though, and nobody seems to complain. Just like every runner leaving early from base, too.

In the Tennessee/Northwestern game, the PU immediately called a slap-hitting batter out for being out of the box. The replay showed that it was very borderline at best. But the first thing I thought of was how did he see this and track the pitch properly, as has been discussed here at length. The batter slap-hit the ball to shortstop, and beat the throw to first by plenty, only to be called out of the box by the ever alert PU.

The commentators just gushed about how the PU is responsible to watch the batter's feet. By the replay, maybe the front foot was past the line, but the batter's box was pretty well obliterated by this point of the game. I wonder how the umpire could see this violation so clearly when he was supposed to be watching the pitch.

NCAA is not the only softball association in which—if you want their high-level games—you buy in to the entire program and do everything their way. You practically follow a script or, like a robot, a program.

If you don't care about doing those particular high-level games, though, you can ignore the narrow clique of evangelicals at the top and make calls pretty much however you want.

Then why does the Softball create such and environment and other sports in the NCAA do not seem to care what the officials do?

Peace

The association I work with does both softball and baseball, and I do roughly 75% baseball and 25% softball. So, I basically consider myself a baseball guy who does softball. My experience has been that the ASA controls most of the mechanics and techniques that both the NCAA and FED softball umpires use.

In spite of not having 'drunk the kool-aid', I still received a 3A NCS Softball Playoff assignment (as well as a 2A NCS baseball semi-final). I use the GD both in baseball and softball, and I wear uniforms with numbers and shoes with little white "N's" on them. I suspect that my upward mobility in softball will be limited due to this fact, and I can live with that.

Then why does the Softball create such and environment and other sports in the NCAA do not seem to care what the officials do?

Good question. I can only surmise that the NCAA looks to Fed and ASA as examples. Even then, I can go only by my experience in NJ; I don't know how Fed and ASA operate in other states.

I must say that I don't understand the appeal of having every umpire make calls exactly the same way, choreographing the umpire's movements and timing down to the last detail. It reminds me of certain large corporate training organizations that want all their instructors to teach every session exactly the same—on Tuesday at 10:42 a.m. you are pointing with your right hand to square number 11 on the flip chart and mentioning this or that team-building theory. It's almost cult-like.

I don't want to get into names and specific organizations, but I've been somewhat put off when various bigwigs have tried to recruit me to be one of "them." It's all about "our way" and "selling the [you name the association] method" and "getting the big games." It reminds me oddly of the sort of come-on I used to hear from multi-level sales schemes.

I wouldn't say that NCAA doesn't care about officials who do other sports...I know a few DI football guys who don't ref anymore for either blowing a call, calls, or messing up mechanics...(ie...a umpire who signals TD)...the other sports probably aren't as robotic as softball, but micromanaging your officials doesn't necessarily correlate with quality either...

Hear, hear,

Fast pitch softball umpires are clones...no individuality....no sense of anything.


And the mehanics they are dealt are abyssmal

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto---Domo domo...

At the risk of angering you guys (I don't do baseball and only did slow pitch softball in college), I'm going to have to side here with the uniformity of the softball umps. Individual style may be a baseball umpire tradition, but in some ways it creates laziness and provides an excuse for those who don't try and improve their game. I've always been a big fan of uniformity, but with one caveat: do what you must do to sell the call.

However, you guys are light years ahead of the softball folks in uniforms. I think the black shirts look sharp and are very authoritative. The blue pants in softball look like something out of the sixties, and look horrible with navy jackets. I keep waiting for them to wear beanies and ties too.

The guy who did home plate last night in the Arizona-Tennessee game was different than the rest. He made strike calls right away instead of waiting several seconds and held is arm at 45 degrees instead of 90.

Hmmmm. I think I found Captain Obvious' secret identity.

[QUOTE=GarthB]http://www.forumspile.com/Obvious-CaptainObvious.gif
Is that him?

The stiff softball mechanics agitate me. They remind me of cheerleaders when they put their hand up in the air at the end of a cheer and strike a pose.

Also, i flipped through and seen this one PU in the NW/Wash game call a 10 second violation on the pitchers at least 5 times. It was ridiculous. I was thinking either this lady is the definition of OOO, or maybe that's the way softball wants it done. i dunno.

The way it has been explained to me is that softball is very concerned about umpires being 'bigger' then the game. They don't want to draw attention to themselves, thus the lack of 'selling' calls or different color uniforms.

They frown on 'non standard' mechanics, or colors or doing anything that makes anyone notice anything that you do above and beyond calling the rules and the game as it is meant to be.

I would try to explain it to you, but I don't think you guys have the wherewithal to comprehend the purpose and the common decency to understand that just because it isn't "your way" doesn't mean it is wrong.

*sigh*

Ironic coming from a poster who has in his screen name "MAFIA." ;)

Okee Dokee, Mike!!

I don't think anyone here is saying the softball mechanics are wrong, just different. However, I have noticed that attitudes like yours are quite prevalent in softball.

To each his own, and have a wonderful day!!

Did she go?
 

That check swing mechanic makes it hard if you wear a HSM. But wait, I don't believe I've ever seen a softball umpire wear a HSM.

The check swing mechanic is rediculous. Mask off, 3 steps out into foul territory, and a point. Seems a little bit too big if NCAA really wants them to just exist and blend in.

Also, the called strike three mechanic is absolutely hilarious. Arm up, 2 steps to the left or right, then swing it down all the way to your left foot. Give me a break. Hope softball umpires who work 2 man (or woman) don't do this.

Does the signal for "in" in tennis change from clay/composite/grass, men/women, single/doubles? A bit of an exaggeration obviously but you get my point. Baseball and softball obviously stem from the same sport; so what set of umpires changed first? Did baseball umpires in the 1950s used to act like this?

I missed the check swing, but I saw the punch out mechanic, and I agree that it was hilarious.

I don't think that the tennis analogy works, because even though the surface/sex/# of players change, the sport remains the same, the court sizes remain the same, and so the mechanics remain the same. I think a better analogy would be comparing tennis and badminton. Baseball and softball are only similar in nature, not really the same.

And baseball umpires in the 50's used horrible looking mechanics, and rushed all their calls. Back then it was considered proper mechanics, whereas nowdays those same mechanics look ridiculous.

Well then SDS, when did softball become so main stream? Where did they get their umpires from (baseball I'd presume?) And were the baseball mechanics at this time that softball really got going representitve of the mechanics that we see in softball today?

Just asking, I'm not old enough to know much about this.

And were the baseball mechanics at this time that softball really got going representative of the mechanics that we see in softball today?

Absolutely not. The baseball umps in the 1950s and 1960s all had their own style. An ump who made calls like those NCAA softball umps on TV would have been laughed out of the park. The current softball mechanics did not derive from any era of baseball.

Remember that in many places (certainly here in NJ), high school umps (for example) were hired by the school. They were often simply local ex-ballplayers the coach knew. They didn't attend clinics or even have to differentiate between rule sets. It was simply "baseball rules." In the 1950s (and 1960s), things were far less "official" than today.

Nake Gun
 

When the guy on the plate does the NAKE GUN that looks cool also:D

Called Strike Three
 

That is what he or she wants to do that is not a NCAA Softball Mechanic!!!

http://cghs.dadeschools.net/african-...gwtw_mammy.JPG

I don't know nothin' about no softball umpiring!

The Check swing mechanic is THE exception to the "dont be bigger than the game concept"

The srtike 3 mechanic is NOT standard, and is allowed to be individualized.

Dont worry, softball umpires make fun of your mechanics (or lack thereof) also.... so bash away...

We'll keep making fun of the strike zone, which seems to be anything in the vicinity of home plate and off the ground. Watching NCAA D-I players get rung up on pitches on the opposite batter's box line makes me shake my head and wonder how these umpires get assigned games.

Look at this post from the softball forum down below. Plate umpires don't have the luxury of turning to the side, what a joke. Considering how long it takes them to make a strike call I just don't get this comment at all. Also what is with the wide stance behind home plate!! :rolleyes:

From the softball forum:

I think the 'robotics' are required in softball to do a good job. I think it's a faster game when played well.... and plate umpires can't afford the luxury of turning to the side to perform one of those styling and profiling baseball stike mechanics.

(I think they can be robotic, too, but they just change every couple of years. Lately they've been getting near us.)

I also agree with Texas Aggie's posting. Them boys sure do look purdee in their high dollar uniforms.
__________________

Softball - Baseball - And the Difference is .......
 

Anyone been to a Jim Evens Academy? Anyone actually looked at the BU's in MLB? Come on all of you whinging, as someone said in this thread, if you want the big games you have to conform to what the Assc wants, if you want to dance around with bang-bang calls then do it, it looks great, but mind how the coaches and players think about it! :D

Another great post from the softball forum.

"Heck, I always have my indicator when I'm BU, with another one in my ball bag (in case my partner forgets his/hers) ... Actually, our org assigns us to 3 games per night. I usually do games 1 and 3 behind the plate, and game 2 on the bases. So yes, my ball bag is with me, but I usually remember to take it off when I'm BU. Sometimes I forget, but hey... it's only rec ball. :P"

You have to be careful about making assumptions. What if they were cutting and pasting posts by Canadaump6 or LLDan?

If you've been to Jim's Academy, not only would you be expected to know how to spell his name correctly, you would also know that the uniformity in mechanics he requires in his training provides the instructors the ability to compare apples to apples. They are constantly reminding students that many of the "techniques" can be adjusted later.

For example, students are not expected to keep saying, "Strike One, Strike Two, Strike Three, Ball One, Ball Two, Ball Three, Ball Four, TIME!" when they leave school. Those who attend PBUC experience some immediate changes in some mechanics, regardless of which school they attended. In fact, they were encouraged to introduce a little personality into their calls and not be robotic or too mechanical.

When you go to a Single A game and see kids fresh from PBUc working, you will notice several differences from proschool style mechanics. We are fortunate in our association to have a recent PBUC grad who will be working pro ball this year. He has shared much of his PBUC experience with us and we have incorporated some of what he was taught into our mechanics.

To the contrary ... it seems to me that EVERYONE here is saying that they are wrong in one way or another.

But in the real world . . .

I did 25 college softball games this spring, including a district tournament. I use the GD stance/system, make strike calls simultaneous with the raising of the right arm, and would quit if I had to mimic those umps on TV.

At preseason meetings, they talk about proper uniform, arriving early, staying in communication with the assigner, etc., but not how to make calls. Our assigner attended several of my games and never said anything about my mechanics. No coach or player has ever complained that I don't look like the TV umps. (Frankly, if they did, I'd be pleased.) In fact, of the umps I work with, none resemble those TV umps.

When I traveled out of state to do the tournament at the end of the season, I was somewhat fearful that the other umps would expect me to be Mr. Robot. They were very serious about their 3-man mechanics, which I'm not used to, and they were top-notch officials, but they didn't look anything like the TV umps.

But to be "one of us" and do the World Series, that's another story.

PS. In an interesting irony, a few years ago I attended a clinic (not NCAA), and the main instructor was teaching the robot mechanics. We all practiced saying, "Strike," waiting a second, and then standing up and giving the robot arm signal. I could have thrown up. Anyway, a few months later I went to see Princeton play Dartmouth in a double-header, and this guy is working the games. So he used the mechanics he taught, right? Wrong. He made his calls quite conventionally, and boy, could he sell them. Three straight runners safe at 1B on close plays, and he sold the outs so well that nobody even peeped. And a very good ball-strike guy—with good old baseball technique behind the plate.

About 1895.

"Main steam" probably would suggest 1932 when ASA was established and created a single rule set for all national play. By '32 softball was THE national rec sport, having long ago supplanted baseball. And international also, having been spread around the globe by the US military in WWI.

Of course! "Indoor baseball" was a derivative of outdoor baseball. Why do you think softball is pitched underhand? Because that is the way baseball was pitched in the late 1800's.

I seriously doubt that baseball mechanics today are at all what they were 120 years ago.

Are you looking for agreement on that. :rolleyes:

WMB

(From the SB side)

So in other words, softball is a sport that hasn't evolved?

Garth,

Maybe it was just intelligently designed. :rolleyes:

JM

Moe, Larry and Shemp.........
 

Doesn't the NCAA trust anyone besides the same three umpires to work the entire WCWS?

(Each and every year)

I seriously doubt that baseball mechanics today are at all what they were 120 years ago.

Last night I watched some pre–World War I baseball films that had been transferred to DVD. One PU stood straight up for the pitch, and then signaled with the right hand straight out for strikes and the left hand straight out for balls. No surprise that his zone was a bit high. The umps also wore widely varying protective equipment, which probably contributed to their varying mechanics. None looked like robots, though.

Didn't see any diamond helmets.

Again, look below at some of the comments. I would not necessarily agree that you have to be in better shape to do softball than baseball. They have no idea what it is like to work a one man game on a baseball diamond. Also how can you say that there is more action in 2 innings of softball than in baseball.


From the Softball Forum:

Go back and check the number of infrequent posters here and on the baseball board that make the reference. To me, that is a whine for those who seem to need an excuse for bad mouthing others. Or is it an excuse for making themselves feel better because they do not have the opportunity to get the national and international games? Most of the posters on here don't go over to the baseball board and mock the manner in which you do things, so why does it seem important for so many to do that to us?

BTW, I worked the little ball for 22 years, mostly youth to JUCO and some as a gypsy. I left the game at the ripe age of 36 because I was bored to tears. There was not challenge. Don't get me wrong, FP softball tends to bore me at times which is why I concentrate on SP. There is more action in two innings of SP ball than what you may see in an entire baseball game.

And let me break some news to you. To work softball, an umpire needs to be in the same, if not better, physical shape as anyone needs to do baseball. If you don't believe it, you are only fooling yourself

Better physical shape to do 60 foot basepaths, slowpitch? When most slowpitch is 45 year old adult men that chug beer between innings?

:D

Best comparison I can think of:

One of our middling veterans, a guy with a year's experience repeated 15 times who worked best at the 4A JV level or 2A Varsity, quit last year and switched to softball. At the end of his first season he was awarded "Umpire of the Year" by the local softball association.

Softball umpires work 2-3 games a night and, in slowpitch, have a ball in play nearly 100 per cent of the time.

A slow pitch umpire, on an average night, will outrun a baseball umpire( who works one game) 2-1 in distance. The slowpitch umpire will make more calls and interpret more rules in that same evening, not to mention hearing more gripes.

Further, most slow pitch games, and many girls's softball games, are officiated
by one umpire.

You're kidding, right? Sure, the ball in SP is in play most of the time, 'cause the game's been slowed down so ANYone (even me) can play it. And it's only live until it gets back to the infield, where ASA (used to, at least) says to call "time."

But I umpired SP at a US base in Japan, and in a town beer league in Australia (teams had umps for each other), and there's no WAY it was harder work - virtually every call is obvious. And most every SP game I did had a 2nd ump present.

And my baseball games have required way more interpretation - or rather, more circumstances that required a interpretation - so I'm really not sure what you base this one.

I'd even argue the running 2x farther bit - maybe more running, if there's just one, but I think you overstate it. And I'm probably more inclined than others to be sympathetic to the softball cause, having also done FP softball in Hawaii for a couple years, too.

This reminds me (on a tangent) of a middle of the road, backup soccer player in high school that quit and became a fencer (he was dating one I guess). Long story turned short, the kid picks up a fencing wand (stick, sword? :D ) and wins a state championship, individually, 2 months after just knowing how to put on equipment.

So baseball umpire : softball umpire :: soccer player : fencing player person

For me, softball exists to counter the claim that baseball umpires are in it for the money. If that were true, we'd all be working softball. Quicker games...same pay.

Somethings are more important than money.

Guess you weren't around for all the triple-dipper, all day long in the hot sun, 21+ innings worth of solo, 1-man, worst baseball in the world (JR/SR League), run my a$$ off, get beat up behind the plate all day, with players, coaches, and fans who could really care less about being there, games that I worked for 20 years. Three softball games a night. . . sheeeit! Standing on my head.:cool:

I never will understand the animosity between softball and baseball umpires.

Some of you need some practice spotting trolls.

http://tinyurl.com/y2x9so

WOW!

Great troll!

I envision our recent addition as more of a troll like this:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...edTheTroll.jpg

:D In the 40+ years of calling balls & strikes, I have umpired baseball and softball. I have enough uniforms from different Alphabets to fill a closet.

Most of my games I've been by myself as most of my games were ASA softball, either SP or FP.

The year NCAA went with their own ruleset, I attended their clinic and was informed on how to i was to call balls and strikes. I was told how I was to address the coaches and players and what my mechanics would be and if I expected to advance past regular season play, I would conform to their expectations. After the clinic, I called the assignor and told them I would not be doing college softball except as fill-in from then on and I have since quit doing college softball.

I was told how I was to address the coaches and players and what my mechanics would be and if I expected to advance past regular season play, I would conform to their expectations. After the clinic, I called the assignor and told them I would not be doing college softball except as fill-in from then on and I have since quit doing college softball.

Sounds familiar. I'm glad you put your principles ahead of the demands of effete elites. But why did you quit doing regular-season games? You could still have done those without selling your soul.

Let's be Realistic Here...
 

I too am a person who umpires both baseball and fastpitch softball at a ratio of about 50-50. I have umpired both for about 12 years now, and have officiated both at a high level.
When I first began doing both, it was mostly out of necessity due to the low number of good officials in our area. Long story short, it has been 12 years of ups and downs with respect to my feelings for both games, and the umpires that work them.
I can, with honestly and respect for both games, agree that each game is very different with respect to the skillset required to do them.
A comment has been made that you need to be in better shape to do one game or the other. It has been my experience that you need to be in great shape to do a great job in either game. On one hand, in a softball game, the plays are quicker and shorter, requiring good instincts and reflexes. It is true that there are more bangers at 1st, and snap throws by catchers. In baseball, the plays take more time to develop, but the distances you must cover are greater. Your hustle to get to the best position is difficult, requiring good athleticism.
The mechanics (another topic many have touched on) are different for both. Many baseball umpires criticize the "robotic" mechanics. I think they are appropriate for the game in that they are crisp and uniform from official to official. I do not agree with some NCAA mechanics, and do feel they are over the top (check swing mechanic), but many look good. In baseball, many softball umpires criticize baseball umpires for their "lazy" mechanics. I believe that the mechanics, regardless of the game, need to be executed properly, and a certain level of personality can be injected into mechanics.

The bottom line....both games are great. Both games are challenging to officiate for different reasons. In both games, there are poor umpires (who think they're good) and there are great umpires.

On a final note, if you have never done a high level fastpitch softball game, or have never done a high level baseball game, you do not have the grounds to criticize the other game's officials. Have pride is one thing, being assinine is another.

And having a good dictionary or spell check is another. Asinine has only 1 "s.":p

Steve,

You slay me!

Three games vs.one
Ball in play on most ever batter
More plays, more situations, more action, and more chances for rules interpretations.

The baseball umpire has a tougher job on balls and strikes,

The softball umpire, in most leagues, has no partner.

Softball umpires work two to four games a night.

The baseball umpires, two of them, come to their one game after me and leave before me.

I deserve more money.

That never happened.

Nice post.

The argument from here is only that softball umpires have to be is as good of shape as a baseball umpire to do a good job.

And, for most of us who do summer ball, the stress factor grows much faster in slow pitch since there is only one umpire.

Ahhhhhh. Technology. Gotta love it.

Indeed. Same here. :)

Well, I don't have him on my ignore list, but trust me when I say you're not missing anything by not reading his posts. I will spare you any quotations!

I really should start using that feature.

You know, I've done slow pitch softball and on the whole, it is garbage. One umpire is probably sufficient for that "sport". I respect both the games of fastpitch softball and baseball. Slowpitch...well not so much.

Frankly I think the football scores are boring, as is the constant stream of base hits. I'll take a 2-0 pitcher' dual any game, even on the bases.

Edit: That said, I still respect all umpires. As I've said, I've done both sports and while I prefer baseball, I will never criticize a softball umpire. The mechanics and attitude towards calling games is different, but I guess variety is the spice of life or some other cliche such as that.

Me too. Me too.

Ummm... no, the argument was that softball umpires must be in better physical condition than baseball umpires.

Nice try though.

I have umpired countless baseball, SP, FP, and modified pitch games over the past four decades. At the top levels, SP is extraordinary. The players are extremely talented and constantly push the boundaries. And very few umpires can handle those games. Sometimes you feel like a single cop who has pulled over a biker gang.

However, as for regular umpire assignments, I agree that most of the SP games are garbage. This area was once a hotbed of SP, but if you attend a game now you'll see a bunch of overweight guys crushing pitches with their hot bats and trotting from base to base while the defense throws the ball who knows where. As an assigner, I had to cover a SP game a couple of nights ago, and a bunch of guys I used to play with (I'm 58) clobbered their opponents by 19 runs in 4½ innings. Nobody broke a sweat. At least the game took only 57 minutes. Yes, garbage.

Of course, many of the rec league FP games are pretty weak, too. But the atmosphere is usually positive and fun (in stark contrast to SP), even if you sometimes have to show the batter where to stand and the offense is limited to 5 runs an inning. On the other hand, there are practically unlimited high-quality FP games for good umpires to do.

We know that high-level baseball requires a great deal from an umpire, but of all the game assignments in a season, for what percentage would the assigner say, "This game requires two excellent umpires"? Baseball also has a disadvantage in that so many of the games are long and slow and, frankly, boring. I hate to say that, since I've loved baseball forever. But I stopped by high school game the other day (two middling teams), and after a couple of innings I couldn't stand it any more. Why does it take 15 minutes for three batters to make outs?

So at their high levels, baseball, FP, and SP are all good games that require competent officials. Perhaps it's a matter of which sport offers the most good games in your area.

Greymule, Talk to me a little more
 

When you say "SP at the top levels is extraordinary", what exacxtly do you mean?

Are there lots of close plays, tough calls, and great defense and hitting? I am trying to understand what you are saying here. From what I have seen, top level SP is really glorified HRD unless you have limits on homers.

I hope there are places where SP is a great game to work, I just don't see it.

Are there lots of close plays, tough calls, and great defense and hitting?

Absolutely. It's not HRD, since there hasn't been an "unlimited" game around here in almost a decade. But the best SP teams—and I admit they make up a very small percentage—are made up of fine athletes who excel in all aspects of the game. Many if not most were top-notch baseball players. They hustle, too. No trotting to 1B on singles. They take wide turns and keep going on the slightest bobble. Some of the infielders are astoundingly good. These are not the beer bellies of the stereotype.

Umpiring at that level of SP has nothing to do with umpiring most of the SP you see. These teams get into tournaments; they generally don't play in local leagues. Still, I think the long-term future of SP is in doubt.

I agree that you don't see much of the kind of ball I'm talking about. I played SP for many years on some pretty good teams, but at this point I don't care if I ever do another SP game.