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Legal Play at Home?
I know that hurdling is illegal in FED. At what point is something considered hurdling?
R1 coming home. Throw to the plate is off line just a bit. F2 drops to his knees to catch the ball then reaches back towards the baseline to attempt to tag R1. R1 jumps over the glove (say 12 inches off the ground) and is not tagged. Is this legal? Is it not hurdling since the player is on his knees and reaching for the runner? |
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FED rule 8-4-2b2.
"Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal. Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal." The way I interpret this, the hurdling has to be over the top of a fielder not lying on the ground for it to be illegal. |
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Peace |
In every case, the Fed rule book uses the word "dive over" instead of hurdle. Diving over someone is legal if they are laying on the ground. Jumping over a glove or leaping to avoid a tag is not the same as diving over someone.
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Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal." A couple of points: 1) Diving is *also* covered under 8-4-2d "Dives over a fielder." There are no exceptions here. 2) The fielder need not be "prone" as someone indicated (and as is often stated). He can be supine, or on his side, etc. |
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Sorry for the use of the word diving, also. |
Please clear up my confusion on the definition of "lying on the ground."
In this case, the catcher went to his knees to block/catch the ball and was in foul territory. He then lunged from his knees towards the baseline and runner. He was NOT lying on his stomach at the time of the attempted tag. Does this fall under "lying on the ground?" |
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STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!
"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this? :confused: Ugh!!!!!!!! God@#$% FED Rules! |
FED, LL, PONY, USSSA, MLB. OBR, ETC.....
Rules are Rules! IF you don't do the games, don't complain about the rules. They are all odd in some fashion and hard to understand and interp at times. To complain about rules doesn't make much sense. |
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FED rules are very different from OBR and even though most of do not like them, we do not write the rules. Our job is to understand them and enforce them. But if you think FED is bad, try understanding the NCAA DH rule! |
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OP says, "I know it's illegal..." - I want to know why he thinks that. |
If I understand this correctly, a runner can jump, hurdle or leap over any part of a fielder who is lying on the ground. If the fielder is not lying on the ground, a runner can only jump, hurdle or leap over an outstretched glove or arm.
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I will grant that it has been a couple of years for me ... so if something's changed in FED rules in the past year, I could be wrong.
But we were basically taught that any sort of jumping over (hurdling, etc) was legal unless you go over a standing player or over the head of a player on his knees. This was interp, as the rule does not exactly spell out for you in black and white where the line should be drawn. The actions in the OP were legal. |
I don't understand what the problem is here. As Bob Jenkins posted
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If the fielder is kneeling, bending, standing upright, dancing the jig, or otherwise not lying on the ground, the runner must not attempt to make himself higher than the fielder he is trying to avoid! So, if the fielder is kneeling and stretches out his glove (with the ball) and the runner bounds over the glove, the runner is alright as long as he doesn't make himself higher than the fielder that is kneeling. I realize that is hard for non-FED people to conceive but that is how it is handles. In 35 years of FED, I have never applied this or seen it happen! The rule was put in place to prevent runners from diving over catchers on their knees trying to make the tag on the 3rd base line (like you see in the movies). The FED chose not to limit it to just diving over the catcher. Again, the players are not drawing a salary, they are amateurs so safety is the first order of business. |
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Do you want amateur players playing like the BIG GUYS and "plow" into one another? Also, keep in mind that many of these rules are driven by insurance companies. It's not that difficult to understand. We all know or I should say should know what "lying on the ground" means. In addition we should know the differences between diving, hurdling or leaping. Diving: = A headlong plunge Leaping: A self propelled movement upwards / downwards Hurdling - To jump over a barrier Notice in Diving - A Headlong Plunge which is why FED discourages this kind of tactic and is an automatic out. When someone dives they are risking serious injury because as the defintion says they are leading with their head as opposed to leaping or hurdling in which the player has more control. In FED one cannot Dive whether the player is lying on the ground or not. Pete Booth |
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BTW, look up the definition of the word "sarcasm," because it's obvious you and ozzy don't know it. Some of you people on this board really get your panties all in a twist when someone else tries to have a little fun, that's for sure. :rolleyes: |
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I cannot tell you what to post but IMO, the first thing to do is answer the question , then if you want to add what you think then fine. In this OP you did not answer the question but simply said you do not care for FED rules which is fine but the point is the poster did not ask you for your opinion of FED rules, he asked a specific question. In all walks of life we should have fun, but the Umpire Forums should start with the premise that people want to learn etc. about a given rule, then if you want to add your $.02 go right ahead. Pete Booth |
I had fun making a crack about FED rules. My "stop it" post was done in jest, and it's kinda sad when I have to explain it to those who lack even a scintilla of a sense of humor.
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I found it ironic that Ozzy would chastise UMP25 for ranting in giant letters, as he does the same thing when he is off his meds!:) :eek: |
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But I got your humor ... surprised the others didn't. |
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Those that don't get it, still don't get it.:D |
Well, some people are beyond help, that's all. ;)
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"Rocket Scientist"
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I'm just waiting till he faces the White Sox next week. We historically kick the schit out of him. :)
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