Is this Legal?
 

Is the batting helmet/catcher's mask still legal in Fed games? Look at this picture. http://www.maxpreps.com/Galleries.as...2-a843cc3b3c13

Bob,

In FED, the combo in the picture would be illegal solely because the helmet does not cover the catcher's ears (assuming it had the NOCSAE stamp, of course). A similar combo that did cover the catcher's ears (with NOCSAE stamp) would be legal.

JM

So, that begs the question, why was this combo allowed in this NCS 3A Semi-final game?????

The umpire probably read this forum, when I tried to point out that this type of "conventional mask" and "batting helmet" combination was illegal, and people argued with me about it. The umpire obviously agreed with them.

I looked at all the pictures and some were wearing jewelry and sitting outside the dugout. I suppose these guys didn't want to rock the boat and mess up future playoff assignments. I've seen it before and I'm sure I'll see it again.

Hmm,
 

There is no possible way that this helmet/mask combo would be legal in any Federation game.

I hope someone sends this picture to the "powers that be" and make sure that these umpires do not advance to any more Federation playoff games.

This is the EXACT reason umpires that call Federation rules have problems.

If these idiots would call the rules correctly it would make if better for the next crew.

Regards,

Tim Christensen

Committee Member
National Federation of High Schools
Publication Committee

Tim is absolutely correct.

I did a 2A NCS Semi-final game and one of the teams couldn't believe that I was making the players stay in the dugout. Imagine that. They were allowed to walk around in front of the bench area all season long. I don't understand that at all.

While I agree with you I have to wonder what the chances are that this catcher put on this equipment for this game only. I'd be willing to bet that he's worn this for most of the season without anyone complaining.

Walt, the point is that catcher should never have been allowed to have it on in the first place. If I was doing that game, I would have had him in the proper helmet, particularly if I knew that some yahoo with a camera was around.

I really wonder who this crew was?

In Alabama, in the playoffs, you're very likely to be seen by a district director, or a district instructor. For this reason, I have seen umpires who are lenient on certain rules suddenly crack down on those rules. I guess this crew had no fear either of being seen by a state official, or receiving any type of punishment for ignoring ( or failing to notice) an obvious violation of a safety
rule. I suppose the coach's assurance that his players are " legally and properly equipt " covers these guys in the event of an injury, huh ?

Well, He does have guts
 

Yes the PU is wrong, and it's why every year the FED rules Cmte puts in the stuff about "Umpire Professionalism".

But, the rule is a silly rule. The old style mask/helmet combination is safe, and if there is one rule in FED I'd ignore, this one might be it.

My question to all of you: Has anyone ever had a game where a HS catcher got hurt because he was using the old helmet/mask without ear protection?

Never heard of one, or saw one. Bet you haven't either. Soon we will have to check skirt lengths, face masks, and wiffle ball bats too to see if the NOCASE seal on them....

Happy Memorial Day, I hope you took time to remember.

John:
 

On May 6th I was in Elliot Hopkins office:

His last comment to me was:

"Tee, just get umpires to call our rules and I will be happy!"

Why can't our level of umpires call rules that are requested by our client?

We agree. This would not be allowed in a game I worked. My point was that this probably wasn't the first time the catcher pulled this gear out of his bag and was allowed to wear it.

I would have to say they're lazy, ignorant or a combination of both.

Not liking a rule doesn't mean not enforcing it. Especially one that is safety related.

I had a game last week. 13-15 boys, house league. The batter came up to the plate with duct tape covering his entire helmet. I told him he wasn't going to use that helmet in this game. The reply I got back from the coach was the other umpires allow it. Not in my game coach.

Can't say for others.. however around my parts... we would be told were looking for trouble:rolleyes:

I had a catcher try to wear a combo like this in my second vafrsity game this past season. I informed him and his coach that it was not legal equipment and would not be worn.

Miraculously, he came back in about 30 seconds with a HSM.

Never be afraid of enforcing safety rules.

Just curious (because I'm a younger umpire) - how long as this restriction of combo mask been in place?

P.S. - watch Fed make umpires wear the HSM within 3 years...

Eight or nine years maybe........? I know that around the time I started umpiring the helmet/masks were becoming very common and there was even a time where the rules did not specifically say the helmet/masks were legal.

We have had this conversation before, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. The reason the rule is in place for players is because the players are not adults. You do not see a rule requiring coaches to wear a helmet while coaching on the bases, do you? That particular rule has been around a lot longer requiring helmets on players that are outside the dugout and bench area than the rule on what kind of helmet the players must wear. In other words the catcher's helmets did not have a NOCSAE stamp on them at one time and the rules had to fall in line.

Maybe this is based on how long you have been around as an umpire, but the NF does not like a lot of change. It took time for the navy shirts to be approved after the Major Leagues and other levels were wearing them for a few years. Now the Majors and other levels wear black, light blue and even cream in some cases and the NF is still stuck on the navy blue only. It is extremely unlikely the NF will ever change something that will require umpires to spend money on something that might push people out of umpiring baseball. It is just not going to happen.

Peace

Is this picture from a high school game? It looks like a Michigan State uniform. Is this helmet/mask combination legal in NCAA?

Yes, it's legal in NCAA.

Hmm,
 

TussAgee11 wrote:

"P.S. - watch Fed make umpires wear the HSM within 3 years..."

There is currently nothing on the table that would lead anyone to believe this. Obviously things can change but it is difficult to demand anything of umpires as they are independent "sub-contractors" in most states and beyond the legal bounds of the NFHS.

Regards,

Tim Christensen

National Federation of High Schools
Publication Committee

I don't disagree with your point, but what is the difference in that and the Federation mandating throat protection, plate shoes, etc., as it did this past season ?

Jack:
 

What is the penalty if I do not wear a mask with a throat guard?

The mandate was from the national insurer of sports officials.

As I noted:

There is no current plan to require HSM for umpires. There is no data to show that they are, indeed, more safe than a mask.

There would have to be a long term study of the use of the HSM and how it affects neck and back injuries over a long period of time before implimentation.

I would suggest that the scissors stance would be outlawed before an HSM requirement.

I would think we will see mandatory helmets with masks on DEFENSIVE players before any direction to umpires.

Regards,

One costs less than $10 and the other cost more than $100. One is already attached to many masks and one would require most umpires to buy something they do not have. You think this might change the number of umpires decide to work games?

Peace

Tee,

If you have an answer for that you could make a lot of $$$$$.

The other side of the coin is: "Why does FED have so many stupid rules that they make guys deal with they will ignore them if they can?"

I know a lot of it is the the holy grail of standardization (if it is illegal in FB, it should be illegal in BB). Take jewelry for example. Okay, in BK of FB no jewelry makes sense. But telling a kid wearing a helmet he can't wear an earring is stupid these days.

Telling an F2 he has to wear a mask/helmet with ear flaps is just as silly. they watch NCAA and MLB players and nobody wears that, except for a few who wear the bucket.

Some FED rules are good, the dead ball appeal for one. But writing the rules not for the sake of playing the game, but so some school or state association doesn't get sued when a 1 in a million circumstance happens in a game is not helpful to enforcement of FED rules.

That's my .02

I don't know whether this represents a change, but I've seen at least 4 different MLB umpires using scissors so far this season.

As MLB . . .
 

. . . "ButtSnufflers" know all Professional Umpires at the AAA level and up were grandfathered in the process to be allowed to use the scissors.

Professional umpires at AA and below are not allowed to use the stance because of insurance coverage reasons.


JK;

I am sure you are aware that 94% of all National Federation of High School rules are suggested by and added by coaches.

While you might think NFHS rules are "stupid" there seems to be concerns from "someone" that causes the rules to be amended each year.

While we don't see many of the issues in our area that the rules makers think important the concern must come from SOMEWHERE.

John, we have known each other for years -- FED is FED and it will always be different than college or professional sport. I can cite you situation after situation in all types of high school sports where your "one-in-a-million" lawsuit has been filed against the NFHS.

While I don't agree with all FEDlandia rules I certainly try to call them as my client expects them to be called.

Regards,

Tim Christensen

National Federation of High Schools
Publication Committee