My 1ST Ejection
 

Man how things have changed. Last year was my 1st year as a carded Baseball umpire. I have been involved in baseball my whole life I'm 50 now. Last year I did every level 6 year olds to 18 year olds. This year I have only been doing H/S games up until last night. I did a 13&14 year old game and hated every minute of it. First of all the attitude of most of the players and one of the coaches was disgusting. Kids with hats turned around, sloppy dress, ear rings all of which was addressed and fixed. Then in the 3rd inning one of the kids who was the biggeset kid there (man he was bigger than me) got picked off 1st as he was fooling around and got caught. Well he went nuts cursing throwing his helmet SEEYA he's gone. His manager did nothing I mean nothing. I was very disappointed with the whole situation. I know all kids at this age are not like this but it really makes me rethink as to what type of games I will be doing in the future. There I feel better now.

Next time you get a kid with and attitude and the coach does nothing about it, warn the coach about keeping his player under control then toss him if it doesn't stop. Our 13-14 league has a zero tolerance on profanity or kids throwing a temper tantrum. As a result, we also have very few disciplinary problems. Our league uses for the most part FED rules with some exceptions. You get ejected, it's a minimum one game suspension.

Establish your position right away with the coaches at the pre-game. Sometimes it's a pain but it will pay off.

No. Don't "establish your position at the pre-game". Why begin with negativity at all. See thread on Plate Conferences sometime recently in the softball forum.

Pre-game is what the umpires have. Plate meeting are what takes place between the managers and the umpires. At the Plate Meeting, you handle and discuss the line up cards, the ground rules and the equipment question to the managers - Nothing else! We have been over this time and again, Plate Meetings are quick and to the point.

If you want to "state your position" go become a politician. This way everyone can ignore you!

Never Pleasant
 

I have never found it pleasant to eject somebody, even the somebody who begged for it. A lot. Once upon a time I had a 15 year-old kid stealing second. Thrown out by a mile and then dropped the F-bomb- not at me, mind you, but in frustration. Whole park heard him, so I had to cut him loose. I hated that.

It's good to vent, though.

To mcrowder:
Quote:
No. Don't "establish your position at the pre-game". Why begin with negativity at all. See thread on Plate Conferences sometime recently in the softball forum.

First of all, know what you are criticizing before you criticize it. When I establish my position at the pregame, I am expected by the league to reiterate two items. One is sportsmanship. The other is profanity - we have zero tolerance in this league. So the statement is this - "there is zero tolerance on profanity - if I hear it, they're gone, and I don't want any complaints about warnings - there are none". So far, every single coach has never questioned it, and they agree 100%. As a result in this league so far this year there have been ZERO ejections. I am not beginning with negativity at all. What I am doing is this - giving them a heads up - the coaches know if one of their players gets tossed for swearing - they will not be coming to me to say "where's the warning" or "isn't there a warning". They will know the kid tossed himself.

To ozzy - do yourself a favor - go back on your medication, stop listening to the voices in your head, and re-read your FED rule and case book on pregame conferences, because that's what FED still calls them. See references below. You can call it whatever you want, you just can't call me wrong.:p :D

Ref: 2-10-2
ART. 2... A pregame conference is a meeting involving the umpires, both head coaches and team captains (if available) near home plate. The meeting should begin approximately five minutes prior to the game. The purpose of the pregame conference is to exchange and check each team's lineup cards and to discuss ground rules. Umpires also shall ask the head coaches of the two opposing teams if their players are legally and properly equipped. In addition, the expectation of good sporting behavior is shared with both teams and representatives (4-1-3a). Both teams shall remain in their dugout (bench) or bullpen area until this meeting has concluded.
Case book references:
1.1.2a
1.5.8g
2.10.2
10.1.7c

BG - I understand reiterating sportsmanship if you have to. But the mere fact that you are calling it "Establishing your position" tells me you are too confrontational. No need to "set a tone" or anything of the sort at the Plate Meeting. Do your duties and move on.

Call it whatever you want - I don't say "this is my position". I make a simple statement and move on. It's not intended to set up an argument, nor is it confrontational. The coaches know we are talking 13 and 14 years old and know how they can be. If a kid swears, the coach KNOWS he will get tossed, and saves himself ANY potential showdown with me. As a result, the coaches go back and tell their players - "hey, there is no joking around when it comes to swearing - the umpire WILL throw you out of the game, and I can't help you".

Just out of curiosity

Which ejections does the coach think he CAN help out on?

My summer league, if a player gets tossed, so does the coach

People, people, people.

What good does it do one to dump BG in the ignore closet if you all keep quoting him?

Thanks for your consideration of this matter.

And it's some of the worst freaking advice one can give.

Step back and remember, "I am the umpire." Take care of bidness when necessary, but making everyone think you're a hardass at the plate meeting is stupid.

I agree, Rich. I also have a problem with his leagues "zero tolerance" policy on profanity. It's baseball, not a church social. There's no reason to toss a player for cursing unless it's directed at someone in an unsportsmanlike manner, or shouted loud enough for the women in the top row of the bleachers to hear. Shaving aged players swear out of frustration at themselves all the time.I just make a point to ask them to watch their language when I choose to hear what they said.


Tim.

And, has ever been thus. That's why he's in the ignore closet.

Sorry Garth, I forgot.

Sorry Garth, did you say something?:D

Slip of the tongue, so to speak.:cool:

What did I ever say to you to deserve this comment? Several of you guys are doing your best to read a whole lot more into my posts than is there and at the same time rip me for it. I'm not trying to be a harda$$ about anything. Some of these coaches I know very well. All it takes is one I haven't had, I don't make the statement, one of his kids drops the f-bomb, I toss, and then the coach says "what about a warning?" One of the reasons I do this is my second game last year, I toss a kid for yelling at his catcher "why don't you throw me the da** ball" loud enough to be heard by both benches. Then the coach comes out and starts with "isn't there a warning?" He shoots his mouth off one extra time so I toss him too.

All I've done is head off any potential situation on this one issue only. If this makes me a harda$$, or confrontational, or negative, so be it. BTW, it has served it's purpose - no ejections, and no foul language from any coach or spectator.

First, if there is this so-called "zero tolerance" policy concerning swearing in your league, everyone already knows the rule, and thus should not require any statement reminding them.

Second, while no warning is ever necessary to eject a player for swearing, don't you think the word "damn" is pretty damn tame? You said if one of the kids drops an f-bomb. Well, that's a far cry from "damn."

If I were the coach, I would have questioned throwing a kid out for saying (or even screaming) the word "damn."

The words "damn" or "hell" are not considered vulgarities, but the f-word most certainly is. Notice how damn and hell get past the very sensitive censor on this website, which catches the really bad words every time.;)

Hmmmmmm....Will you show me the official list of vulgarities please?

I don't disagree with the intent of this post but
Every coach knows the rules dictate good sportsmanship from him and his players and yet I remind them of this at every plate meeting.
Every coach knows by rule his players must be equipped properly and yet I ask at every plate meeting if they are indeed equipped properly.

If a league has a zero tolerance policy on language I don't think it is at all out of line to remind the coach of this policy at the plate meeting.
It's consistent with what the plate meeting is used for.

I think George Carlin covered the list years ago.

S***, P***. F***, C***, C*********, M***********, and T***

I think a 'no statement' on profanity at the plate meeting would be much more fair and true to the intent of the rules.

Personally I think your league dropped the ball on this one.

Gentlemen, after reading all of these posts I did a search on all of the posts still in the database on this site that pertain to the Plate Meeting. I see that there is such a wide array of reasons as to why things need to be stated at the Plate Meeting.

I have therefore concluded that each game has its Plate Meeting at least 1 hour before game time. First there will be the blessing of the baseballs with incantations to the god Wokehmawanna. Then the umpires will call upon the sacred hailings of the prophet Ginga who really wrote the original rules interpretations that were stolen by Jaska & Roder after they defeated the under-lord Kalkaka, the devil that stole the soul of Ty Cobb.

The umpires will then unveil the proper rule book for that level of play and chant, in 2 part harmony, each and every rule in said book. This will be followed by discussions with the managers (wearing Viking headdress) as to how each rule will be enforced that day. Also, a copy of the "local rules" of the league needs to be explained in detail so that there is no question when a batter is "called out for throwing his bat" or a player is ejected for saying "Damn".

Umpires must also explain how the strike zone will be called for that game and what will be allowed in as far as balks or warnings - no, let's just give warnings because balks hurt the feelings of the players! When the Plate Meeting is concluded, there should be no arguments, ejections or questions because everything has been explained to everyone. Then there will be a Kool-aid toast to the god Melhalla to bring wisdom and knowledge to all who participated in the church service known as the Plate Meeting!

There, that should satisfy all of the imbeciles that need to have these outlandish Plate Meetings!

I agree, but it could be stated in a less confrontational manner that how I perceived BigUmp's statement.

I'll tell you why I tossed the kid - mainly because he directed his comments to his own catcher, which really doesn't show much sportsmanship. Words that are common phrase now, I never would have thought about saying when I was a kid. Just because they get by the censors doesn't mean it's ok. Do they use hell and damn on Barney, or cartoons. (other than the Simpsons and South Park) Kids trash talk in school and sometimes the teachers join in. Personally, I think the standards have dropped too much. I'm just one of those who thinks it has no place on a baseball diamond where the players are 13 and 14 and there are not only older folks who don't appreciate it but also younger impressionable kids who don't need to hear it. If that means my standards are higher, I'm happy to oblige. The coaches don't complain because they agree. And the coach I tossed, he apologized because he knew was wrong.

I like it!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

That is why I wouldn't toss him. Had the comment been directed at an opponent, official, or other adult not affiliated with his team, I might have a different opinion, depending on exactly what was said. Maybe the catcher and he have that kind of relationship, and talk that way with each other all the time.

Please don't tell me you never used "hell" and "damn" when you were a teenager. I will get that BS meter back out of the closet.:)


One of the worst analogies I've ever seen. Highly illogical. Are these players 3 and 4 year olds? No, they are 13 and 14 year olds, and are much more likely to watch South Park, The Simpsons, and other more mature fare, than they are to watch a baby show such as Barney.

Profanity rules are absurd. We have remedies for unsportsmanlike conduct. Why the inconsistently handled faux attempt at having the umpires be language police? Absurd.

The ejection for 'non-Barney language' between members of the same team just slays me. That's one of the funniest things I've ever read.

If that's just trolling, it's high-quality material, very entertaining.

I love you, you love me......

From what I have read, your standards are not "higher." They are different, to be sure, but they are not "higher."

Your over-officiousness is at peak levels, though.

I'm glad to see that you think about the rules and their intent.
This forum is a great place to share opinions on the game and it's rules.

Actually I don't have a league and have never posted anything referring to my non existent league. Usually sarcasm, like comedy needs some thread of truth to be effective. (Just a hint for future attempts to slam me)
But if it makes you happy I'm sure some league some where at some time has dropped the ball, like maybe the one you work for.

Hey, at least you recognized it. Wouldn't believe how many on this forum wouldn't have a clue what I said :D

But then again, you are the one who says Evans and JR are lost at sea (its common for one or the other to be disregarded.. but both is a rare bird)..perhaps the Don Mueller Umpiring Academy is a crying need waiting to be met? ;)

When Evans and J/R are sitting at the right hand I'll consider not questioning them. In the meantime I think it's healthy to revisit rules and mechanics occasionally and even debate their merits. In fact if that didn't take place we'd still be operating under rules and mechanics from the 1800s.
Don't you agree?

Hopefully you are part of an umpire association. if you are, tell the assignor what happened.

The assignor will make a mental note and whenever these teams play again the assignor will send in the 'A" team meaning 2 old Smitty's who couldn't give a rat's you know what about the game. Just show me the money.

These "Smitty's" would start ejecting right away and go home early. After these teams keep shelling out top dollar for 1 to 2 inning games, maybe they will get the hint.

Pete Booth

You may think it's a bad analogy. My point was this. At baseball games, if you allow some of these words to be spoken, there may be 3 or 4 year old kids present who can hear what is being said, despite some parents' best ability to not let their kids hear it. They don't have to worry about words like that on Barney, etc. When given a choice parents will have their 3-4 year old children watch programming that has NO profanity. Believe it or not there are still people who object to hearing any profanities.

The league sets their own standards of conduct. I happen to also be on the league's board of directors and a coach at the 15-17 level.

Have you been to a major league game? You should hear what is said there, both on and off the field. There is more swearing going on there than any amateur game. I see babies, toddlers, grade school kids, and teenagers at these games. They are exposed to much worse than a "damn" or "hell."

I'm not condoning profanity. I personally don't care to hear it, especially if they slide God or Jesus into the mix, or scream nasty obscenities. I shut that stuff down immediately. My ears aren't garbage cans. But if you are afraid of what 3-4 year old children are picking up at the ballyard, don't bring them along. It isn't a church social, it's a baseball game, complete with players and coaches who spit, scratch, chew, and cuss, as has been the tradition since Alexander first laid out the ballfield.

Why does the words God or Jesus make it different? Plenty of people feel as that God is just a grownups imaginary friend. Are you going to force your religious views on all participants? Then you say it isn't a church social where spitting, scratching, chewing and cussing in the standard operating procedure. You have your standards? Yeah, double standards.

You apparently haven't been to some of the churches around here!:p

A typical "plate conference" (I hope I have the right term :D ) on "getaway day" on the pro level often goes like this:

Manager: "Let's get this **** over with we got a bus to catch."
Other manager: "Where the **** are you guys going to next?"
Manager: "****in' Lowell."
Other manager: "****, that's a long ****ing bus ride."
Me: "Dick, 25 DHing in the five hole?"
Manager: "Yup. Where the **** are you guys going?"
Other manager: "Back home."
Manager: "That's good."
Other manager: "No, our GM is a ****in' dumb *** and has us playing at 12 tomorrow...on a ****in Monday."
Me: "John, 4 DHing in the seven hole?"
Other manager: "Yup."
Manager: "No ****, John"
Other manager: "Who the **** schedules a business man's special on a ****ing Monday after a ****ing road trip?"
Manager: "No ****, huh."
Me: "Any questions on the ground rules?"
Manager: "No"
Other manager: "No. Same **** as the previous ****in' games, right."
Me: "Yup."
Manager: "Good ****in' luck, John."
Other manager: "Same to you Dick. Have a safe ****in' trip to Lowell. Maybe we'll meet up at the end of the ****in' season."
Me: "Good luck, gentlemen."
[[coaches leave]]

Me (to partner): "Where the **** do we go tomorrow?"
Partner: "****in' Watertown."
Me: "No ****?"

Let me try this analogy - if you were at a jr high school, and some kid was giving a campaign speech for student government president and added a "hell" or a "damn" in the speech - how long to you think it would take before the kid had his butt hauled down to Mr. Principal's office for a long lecture and possible suspension, because he violated the school policy against profanity. And you know what - most parents would come to their child's defense, and the schools would cite it's tolerance policy. Is it dumb, certainly, beyond all description of common sense. Is it going to change, probably not. Is there anything you can do about it, probably not as well.

I umpire games for a league that has one of those beyond all description of common sense rules about profanity. But it's no different than the jr high - if it isn't tolerated there, why should it be tolerated at a baseball game involving players at the same age level?

BTW, I've been to many MLB games.

There are 3 and 4 year olds present at MLB games too. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. And being on the BoD, you are partly responsible.

Tolerance/punishment for this sort of language from his parent? Fine. But from me? No @%^ing way. Not my place to parent these kids. It's my place to officiate the game.

Most objectionable
 

I was at a MLB game last night. A's vs. KC. 12,000 in attendance. There was a guy sitting a few rows over yelling his head off. He had comments about the umpires, hitting suggestions for the batters, and comments about how the players could be better fielders. A real know it all with a booming voice. He also yelled some profanities when the A's got caught up in their 3rd DP. By far, the most objectionable thing he proclaimed was when the 1st baseman bumped into the A's runner as he rounded 1st on a single. He started yelling “That’s Interference, That's Interference.You gotta give him 2nd on that blue"

Just for my edification - please expand on your comment so that we are all clear. I want to make sure I am understanding your position as you're intending it to be read. It's ok to say "damn", don't just interject "God" in front or you get tossed? Am I on the right track? Does the use of "God" or Jesus Christ or "my Lord" or similar faith-based words or phrases warrant an ejection sooner than if not invoked? You brought it up, so I think in all fairness you should at least expound on what you said before others decide to take whatever issues they may or may not have.

Yes, I don't like the phrases "God Damn" or "Jesus Christ" yelled in anger on my field. I will warn in adult games and eject in youth games for these two phrases. I know plenty of other umpires who feel exactly the same way, despite what PWL thinks. It's not a double standard, it is my view on what is or is not acceptable on my ballfield. I'm not trying to set any standards for your games, or anyone else's games. Why I need to explain my own personal standards here is a mystery to me. What, are you writing a book? Just spell my name right.

"Damn" by itself is okay with me. Using the Lord's name in vain is not. These words are not faith-based words when used as swear words. If someone calls out for help, "my Lord," that is one thing, but screaming out GD, or JC, in anger is a different thing, and you know it.

Look, I get offended when I hear Tiger Woods say "God Damn" after every bad shot he hits. It is offensive to Christian people, and there are more of us than some people think. The use of the F-word on the field equally offends me. How can words like "damn" or "hell" or "piss" by themselves offend anybody, as they all are words found in the Holy Bible?

Time to lock this one down.

Now that that is clear. Let me offer this - whatever your religious persuasion, convictions, positions, etc., if something is said that violates your sense of propriety as it relates to religion, that is to say that you will react differently because somebody says something that you object to from a religious standpoint then you have an acknowleged double standard - you treat those different who don't agree with your religiuos beliefs. I realize this is way off base, but if you were doing a house type league, and one team was sponsored by a private organization called "Atheists, Inc." would you treat them any differently?

As an official, I assume still sanctioned by your state, how can you possibly justify your discriminatory actions?

I don't seek to judge you - you can do that enough on your own. But - how can you possibly be fair and impartial on "your" field, the first time you hear some rowdy, mouthy individual shout words that are objectionable to you, but only for religious reasons?

What can I say dude, I do things my way. I know others who don't like to hear God's name defamed or used for swearing. I don't find the words objectionable for "religious reasons." I find certain words more objectionable than others, and take everything said on a case-by-case basis. I've been at this gig for a long, long time. Everybody that I've ejected deserved to be ejected. I've never ran anyone who did not merit getting run. I don't just eject people to eject people. You are free to draw your own line as to what is swearing and what isn't. In my book, if you can say it on a network TV show, then it's not bad enough to mention when heard.

I said before, I know MANY umpires who feel the same way I do about using the Lord's name in vain, and I have seen them eject people for doing so. These same umpires also don't consider "damn" or "hell" to be cursing, either.