The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   Stealing Home (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/34367-stealing-home.html)

tibear Tue May 08, 2007 07:33am
Stealing Home
 
Here's a real strange one, that I thought of with regards to stealing home. If a pitcher is simply standing on his rubber and looking in for signals when the rubber starts running for home.

The pitcher immediately throws home without coming to a stop.

The catcher steps in front of the plate, catches the ball and tags the runner before the runner touches home. The plate umpire would probably call a balk or CI but could a defensive team use 8.05 d) where it states that a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base(in this case home) while touching his rubber to make a play.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when-

(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

I guess it comes down to whether 8.05 d includes home plate as a base or not.

I've never heard of using this rule in this situation but what do you think??

Rich Ives Tue May 08, 2007 07:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Here's a real strange one, that I thought of with regards to stealing home. If a pitcher is simply standing on his rubber and looking in for signals when the rubber starts running for home.

The pitcher immediately throws home without coming to a stop.

The catcher steps in front of the plate, catches the ball and tags the runner before the runner touches home. The plate umpire would probably call a balk or CI but could a defensive team use 8.05 d) where it states that a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base(in this case home) while touching his rubber to make a play.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when-

(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

I guess it comes down to whether 8.05 d includes home plate as a base or not.

I've never heard of using this rule in this situation but what do you think??
It's CI AND a balk. 7.07.

ozzy6900 Tue May 08, 2007 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Here's a real strange one, that I thought of with regards to stealing home. If a pitcher is simply standing on his rubber and looking in for signals when the rubber starts running for home.

The pitcher immediately throws home without coming to a stop.

The catcher steps in front of the plate, catches the ball and tags the runner before the runner touches home. The plate umpire would probably call a balk or CI but could a defensive team use 8.05 d) where it states that a pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base(in this case home) while touching his rubber to make a play.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when-

(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

I guess it comes down to whether 8.05 d includes home plate as a base or not.

I've never heard of using this rule in this situation but what do you think??
I agree with Rich Ives on the CI and enforcing OBR 7.07 but that is after I enforce the balk especially if there are other runners on base. F1 balked first then F2 committed CI. The pitch was dead the moment it was caught so the runner from 3rd would score anyway.

Hell, I'm going to get them for as much as I can on this one! BWAHAHAHAH!

justanotherblue Tue May 08, 2007 11:15am
I agree, it's both, a balk followed by CI. You have to take em one at a time. Enforce the balk first, R3 gets home. Now you have the CI, BR gets first. If it's a fed game, you only have a balk, since the ball was dead as soon as F1 balked.

jicecone Tue May 08, 2007 11:45am
If he pitcher is in the windup (its not stated), then we have CI.

In the set position, then we have a balk.

If you think about it,this scenario can not happen even if we consider home plate as a "unoccupied base" (and I am not sure if we can), because the pitcher and catcher have restrictions when pitching from the rubber to the plate. If the pitcher was to step and throw to home plate, he has to also satisfied the pitching regulations.

If home plate is not considered an unoccupied base well then the discussion is over.

BigUmp56 Tue May 08, 2007 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherblue
I agree, it's both, a balk followed by CI. You have to take em one at a time. Enforce the balk first, R3 gets home. Now you have the CI, BR gets first. If it's a fed game, you only have a balk, since the ball was dead as soon as F1 balked.

There's nothing to enforce seperatly. You need only to enforce 7.07, which is a balk.


Tim.

TussAgee11 Tue May 08, 2007 12:34pm
What if in OBR

we rule balk...

the ball hits the runner sliding in?

???

BigUmp56 Tue May 08, 2007 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
What if in OBR

we rule balk...

the ball hits the runner sliding in?

???

Then you enforce the balk.

Tim.

johnnyg08 Tue May 08, 2007 01:22pm
Last I checked, while home plate is an unoccupied base, one can't safely occupy home plate. I guess a person could argue that a runner can temporarily for the purposes of touching home plate, temporarily occupy home plate...but I agree w/ other posters that a the unoccupied base rule doesn't apply here.

My follow up question for the board is what determines the balk in this sitch...let's assume FED/OBR in the stretch? FED/OBR Windup? Same sitch...two different pitcher positions. I'd love to see some demos of this exact sitch in a video...we see this quite often...the pitcher goes from the wind and R3 steals home...what constitutes a balk, what is a legal move?

bob jenkins Tue May 08, 2007 01:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
Last I checked, while home plate is an unoccupied base, one can't safely occupy home plate. I guess a person could argue that a runner can temporarily for the purposes of touching home plate, temporarily occupy home plate...but I agree w/ other posters that a the unoccupied base rule doesn't apply here.

My follow up question for the board is what determines the balk in this sitch...let's assume FED/OBR in the stretch? FED/OBR Windup? Same sitch...two different pitcher positions. I'd love to see some demos of this exact sitch in a video...we see this quite often...the pitcher goes from the wind and R3 steals home...what constitutes a balk, what is a legal move?
Pretty much the same things that would be a balk to other bases -- failing to come set (if from the set), failing to step, hesitation, etc.

johnnyg08 Tue May 08, 2007 02:14pm
but the pitcher can legally speed up his motion right?? from the windup...once the pitcher has started his motion is there anything that would constitute a balk??

BigUmp56 Tue May 08, 2007 02:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
but the pitcher can legally speed up his motion right?? from the windup...once the pitcher has started his motion is there anything that would constitute a balk??
Yea, if he throws to a base, drops the ball, or stops his motion with runners on base.


Tim.

johnnyg08 Tue May 08, 2007 02:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
Yea, if he throws to a base, drops the ball, or stops his motion with runners on base.


Tim.
I'm assuming that "throwing" to home and "pitching" to home in this sitch are two implied differences??

BigUmp56 Tue May 08, 2007 02:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
I'm assuming that "throwing" to home and "pitching" to home in this sitch are two implied differences??
The only way a pitcher can throw the ball home is to legally disengage first. Otherwise it's a pitch.


Tim.

johnnyg08 Tue May 08, 2007 02:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
The only way a pitcher can throw the ball home is to legally disengage first. Otherwise it's a pitch.


Tim.
That's what I'm saying...thanks for the clarification


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1