Umpire Interference
 

Gentlemen:

I had the toughest call I have ever had to make today :rolleyes: (tounge in cheek). I called interference on the umpire.



Runner on third, batter hit the ball to F4, F4 throws the ball to F3 for the out. Meanwhile R3 runs home and runs into the umpire who is standing too near the line. R3 is called out on the tag at the plate. I called time. I put R3 back on 3rd. I then gave the umpire a royal a** chewing.

BTW. This was 9-10 year old house league mustangs and I was the only umpire:D

Happy Cinco de Mayo.

You realize, of course, that this isn't umpire interference.

Garth I know, but the coach was so happy to get the out nullified and his kid back on third that I just went with it.

Allow me to play the part of the Grinch.

I don't do that level of ball, but I believe that this is how myths get started. The coach, parents and kids now "know" that if a player runs into an umpire it's interference.

This is similar to the butterfly theory. The energy of this well meaning misapplication of a rule will, one day, turn into a sh!t storm where a kid is called out, the umpire is not believed and a coach gets ejected.

You got lucky the offensive manager didn't know the rules, and protested your call.

Garth, I hear what you are saying but I doubt that's going to happen with this group. They were about the mellowest coaches I have ever dealt with. Parents too. Which was actually quite a relief. Last week I almost called the police because a parent was drunk and yelling obscenities. But that's another story. It was the offensive coach that asked me to put him back on third. It wasn't going to change the game. Heck the game was over in 75 minutes.

Now guys don't go flaming me on this one. I thought it was kind of funny so I put it out here. Shame on me for drinking tequila on Cinco de Mayo and posting.

Nobody's flaming you. You made a mistake and misapplied a rule and you made another mistake in thinking it didn't matter.

It doesn't matter how mellow these coaches were today. Their mood today has nothing to do with what they "learned" about umpire interference. It's what mood they're in when an umpire enforces a similar situation correctly.

If I were you, I wouldn't work with an umpire who can't get out of the way of a 9 year old. And he should think twice about working with an umpire who misapplies the rules.

And, yeah, I know you worked alone.

Garth..Some people can see humor in these situations... obviously you have no sense of humor. Go to bed. It’s late.

Sorry, I've had to clean up messes left by umpires who thought it was humorous to make up rules.

Have another drink and maybe you'll think that's funny, too.

holy God, settle down.

it's a 9 year old baseball game using ONE UMPIRE.

guy is trying to run all over and make calls at about three bases at once it seems like and knocked some kid over or whatever happened.

who cares? I dont think this is severly going to effect the entire baseball playing careers of these kids, do you?

settle down for ten seconds and realize that this probably will NEVER EVEN HAPPEN AGAIN. If it happens in your game and you have to eject a manager over it, then I ask you to find this guy and yell at him, because obviously he caused the whole mess in your life.

good luck and please for the love of all that is holy, chill out.

who cares? I dont think this is severly going to effect the entire baseball playing careers of these kids, do you?


Yes, it will affect them, because they will not have correct knowledge of the RULES. They care--They are out there trying to do their best and expect the same from the umpire.

Hey, by the way, are the hands a part of the bat as well?

This may be funny to a drunken poser who's just collecting a check for putting on a blue shirt or a casual fan, but bring this to an actual umpire board where we take our role on the field seriously and you should expect this kind of reaction.

You are out there to apply the rules correctly, not make stuff up to make the coaches happy.

I'm still trying to figure out how he got run over by a runner coming home from third after making a call at first. How are you anywhere near the 3B line? But then again, it's all just funny......

It sounds like the offense got a break, so it would be the defensive manager who would have a protest.

In the play at had, and given the level and apparent "mellowness" of the coaches, Forest could have apologized, explained the rule, explained that he messed up, learned from it, ...

What he shouldn't have done is put the runner back at third.

This is the instructional level. This is where players and coaches learn the rules. This is where "hands are part of the bat", "home plate is foul", "pitches that hit the dirt are dead" and a runner bumping an umpire is umpire interference are all learned.

Now, I admit a guy "trying to run all over and make calls at about three bases at once" and getting run over by a nine year old is funny. We can discuss appropriate one man mechanics if you'd like. But walking away from a game in which you just imbedded a rule myth is not humorous. Not at any level.

Right you are Bob.

Shouldn't this have been called 'umpire obstruction', and how is it scored?

its not called anything really. IIRC there are only 2 specific instances of 'umpire INT' in the rules, and this is not one of them.

Forest, you should have expected this reaction when you bring a Eteamz topic to this board ;)

Actually, this happened in a late season, nationally televised NCAA Division 1 game last year...that we discussed in-depth on this board and other umpire boards.

While the umpire (in the NCAA game) screwed up in being where he was...the crew got it right and ruled it was not umpire's interference. They had to issue a lot of apologies...but a rule is a rule.

We're paid to get the rules right. And, frankly, I hate cleaning up other umpires' messes, too...on any level.

Of course he was happy ... you cheated in his favor! Why wasn't the OTHER coach chewing you out?

Not flaming you ... but you do need to be aware that lax understanding of rules by coaches and parents coupled with mellow reactions to an umpire not knowing the rules is NOT a good reason for you to be making up rules out there.

How would that be scored?

It is scored however the play pans out...if it's an assist from F7...then it could be a 7 - 2 put out at the plate.

Johnny, thanks for that delightful bit of information. I will now promptly forget it!!! LOL

Johnny, thanks for that delightful bit of information. I will now promptly forget it!!! LOL

why would you forget a correct answer?

I don't understand why anyone needs to know scorekeeping in such minute detail!!! We "SCORE THE RUN" or "NO RUN"....thats about it.

I'm sorry for my sarcasm, but we have been inundated with these mundane trivial issues for a while now.

Why would most of us here remember this one? (And those of us who would need to, self included, already knew that).

Now when I broadcast a HS playoff series this weekend, I'll know what the rule is should this situation occur. Thanks.

:p

Sorry...I'm not on this board to judge the good questions and bad questions...I simply answered how the play would be scored...don't bite my head off....

Most of us recognized the question as facetious. No sweat, you didn't know. For umpires, the rule book only goes from 1-9.

Please explain how you chewed your own a$$.

That occurs when trying to recover from severe cranio-rectal immersion.

You want to talk about a sh$t storm...
 

2 years ago...FED Vasity...I have the bases;

1 out, R1, R3.

BR hits into a possible double play. I call the first out at 2nd. As the play is developing at 1st, my partner steps in to wipe the plate, thinking it is going to be an automatic out at 1st.

BR is safe at 1st on a pulled foot, R3 crashes into the plate umpire. They both go down in a tangled mess. R3 has not touched the plate, F3 throws the ball to the catcher, who tags R3. Plate umpire sees the tag, and calls the runner out from the ground.

Yep, the runner was out, but in my heart, I wanted to nullify the out, and give him home and the run.

It took almost 20 min. to get the game started again. I didn't toss anyone, even though things were said that would normally get someone tossed. Somehow, my hard a$$ partner didn't toss anyone either.

One the way back to the car after the game, my partner blamed me for not making the Bang-Bang call at 1st. In my heart, I kicked him in the B@lls and went home. (I didn't of course)

Hmmm,

In my extremely limited experiece umpiring, I have observed that the only times I dust the plate are:

1. At the beginning of each and every half inning, whether the plate is "dirty" or not.

2. When a manager or catcher requests time to talk to the pitcher (after I have granted it), again, whether the plate is dirty or not.

3. When the catcher or batter asks me to (I call "Time!" first), when the plate is dirty.

4. If the catcher gets "nicked" by a pitch and I feel he might need a moment to gather himself. I call "Time!" first (whether the catcher asks or not & whether the plate is "dirty" or not).

The rest of the time, I don't really seem to care whether the plate is dirty or not. After reading nickrego's dreadful little tale, I don't plan to change my practice.

JM

# 5 - After a play at the plate. Sometimes we need a shovel though.



Tim.

#6 - when the catcher (and/or possibly the batter) needs a private "talking-to". You know what I mean.

# 5 - After a play at the plate. Sometimes we need a shovel though.

Been there, done that. Someone needs to invent a device that pops out of the ground, cleans the plate and then retracts. Happens a lot when you get a 15-14 game.

How does this follow from what Garth said. This is how flame wars get started. Just because Garth or anyone for that matter, doesn't agree with you (get your joke) doesn't therefore imply that he has no sense of humor.

While your intentions on this play were good. You violated the rules in an effort to fix a messy situation. None of the post to that point were ad hominem; they were all strictly based on your misapplication of the rules.

In a related point; I had a game last nite where the Coach thought it was ok warm up the pitcher.

After advising him that it was not ok to do this, he replied, "the last Umpire we had told us to get out there and get the pitcher warmed up, we have a game to get underway [words to that effect]".

This Umpire also advised him that balks would be enforced, no warnings.

This was LL Majors.

Sorry for piling on but it cannot be stressed too much: Don't leave a mess for someone else to clean up. :mad:

I'll add my pennies worth as to how this can hurt. U15 game, I have the dish, my partner nearing 75 or more, can't move, R1, R2, gets hit with a line drive while in C. As I'm yelling time, umpire interference both runners come across the plate. As the dust settles and we check my partner to make sure he's still breathing, I replace the runners on base. The offensive coach is screaming because he lost two runs, saying...umpires are part of the field and his runs count. Doesn't matter, well, yeah it does! Better yet, had three games that day with him. He got hit the next game also! Same results.

And in a varsity FED game last night, I called a balk on a pitcher who stepped off with the wrong foot. The response I got was "What? Don't we get our warning first?"

How does one "balk" in LL majors anyway? I thought the runners could not leave till the ball crosses the plate? I don't do that level of ball, so this is a serious question.

There aren't any balks at that level, just illegal pitches. There used to be balks but LL took them out of the LL rules, which I think was a good move.

You are out there to apply the rules correctly, not make stuff up to make the coaches happy.

I'm still trying to figure out how he got run over by a runner coming home from third after making a call at first. How are you anywhere near the 3B line? But then again, it's all just funny......[/QUOTE]


You're exactly correct! When towns start paying for two umpires, the calls will be made correctly, in the correct position. A one man show is instinctive umpiring. There are few mechanics, other than anticipate where the play should go. With nine year old rec. ball, where you anticipate is not always where the ball ends up.

The insightful catcher (JV) I had the other day suggested that catchers carry a plate brush!

Because in one-man mechanics, you don't go into fair territory when there are runners in scoring position on batted balls until all runners except the BR have scored. The proper mechanic on this ground ball to the infield is to move in foul territory toward third away from the foul line a bit, so stupid old R3 doesn't run into the umpire and start crying. You get an angle for the play at first, while watching R3 touch home plate. You never go into the infield and turn your back to the lead runner.

When did Little League majors have balks? It must have been before 1968 when I played, because they sure didn't call balks then. I have been umpiring since 1986 and know of no such balk rules, only illegal pitches. What was considered a balk, since no lead-offs have ever been allowed at that level? I mean, just who is the pitcher trying to illegally deceive?

When I was playing Little League in the early 90's there were balks called and when I started umpiring in '97 (at the tender age of 13), balks were in the rule book. I remember one game where my partner and I called a combined 4 balks against one pitcher over the span of a couple of innings. If I remember, it was for the pitcher failing to pause while pitching from the set with runners on base. That was a crappy game and I learned a couple of good lessons there.

I remember a few years later when they changed the rules (I want to say that was '99 or 2000) because it was a big deal during our pre-season umpire meetings.

That said, you're right, there is no point in having the balk rule at Majors or below and I'm glad they did away with it.

exactly!
 

Very good practice. One of the things that I cannot stand is watching a game when the umpire continually delays the game to clean the plate when its not needed.

The times that you mentioned, the plate can be cleaned unnoticed by anyone, and the game is not delayed at all.

Thanks
David

I can't believe the coincidence of this post!

I showed up at my son's baseball game last night, as an observer, and had the head coach approach me to ask about umpire interference. Apparently, just before I arrived the umpire behind the plate had a play at home, and decided at the last possible minute to step into the runner's path to move the bat. (DOH!:eek: ) The runner and the ump collided and fell in a heap to the ground. The ball was thrown in, and the runner tagged for the out. Man the coach was MAD!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave the bats alone!

I really need Rich Ives to chime in and verify this, as LL Majors and below have always been able to pitch from the windup with runners on base, no set position ever necessary. I've also never heard of a balk called for not coming set, when a stop is not required by any such rule.

That doesn't mean pitchers don't pitch from the set in Little League.

I have my gear in storage back home. Next time I am there, I will pull it out and see if any of my old rule books are in there, then I can tell you definitively what it was.

Steve,
No set position is necessary. No stop is required. No balks in LL.

Windup?
 

Can't you pitch from the windup with runners on base in all rule codes?

You certainly can...but in most rule codes you can also balk from the windup...

Just to prove that I have not completely lost my mind, this site states that balks were removed from LL in 1999. Granted, it's not a rule book but it's something.

http://mysite.verizon.net/rutherford.ll/umpinst.htm Scroll to the bottom under the heading, "Recent Rule Changes".

Same thing if you check here and look under "Game Rules".

http://www.davislittleleague.org/rules_aaa.asp

I will see if I can dig up a 1998 rulebook, I think I still have one.