winning pitcher
 

Can some one tell me who the losing pitcher is in the following scenario:

A high school pitcher pitches into the top of the 7th inning and gets taken out while losing 3 to 2 and 1 man on base no body out, then the releiver allows the man on base to score and gives up two more hits that allow a second run to score so the score is now 5 to 2. When the relievers team gets their last bat in the bottom of the 7th they score two runs and then the game ends 5 to 4. Is the losing pitcher the starter or the releiver?

This is not hockey. The starter is the losing pitcher.

winning pitcher
 

I am sorry but could you explain a little more, as the reliever allowed the run that wwins the game totally on his own?

sixlehs,

Fed 9-6-6d

Same in OBR, same in NCAA.

JM

winning pitcher
 

can you explain a little more as the reliver allowed in the run that ultimately won the game?

He left the game behind. His team never caught up. He is the losing pitcher. Dem's da rules.

(The hockey comment is because they do it the way it seems that you think baseball should. Kind of silly to me. Goalie is pulled after giving up 3 goals in 5 minutes and is down 3-0. The other team tacks on 2 more - down 5-0. Then his team rallies for 3 goals late, and all of a sudden the NEW goalie is the loser, even though he only gave up 2 goals in 2.9 periods ... same with Game Winning Goal vs Game Winning RBI (not tracked as much anymore as it used to be))

since the run that won the game was charged to the releiver and the starters team score enough to tie the number of runs charged to the starter why does the starter get the loss

And Pony, Dixie, U-Trip, LL, and all versions of softball. Probably Calvinball too.

Six,

Read closely what John posted. The starting pitcher's team was behind when he was removed.


Tim.

Because the rules say so. The "run that won the game" was the run that put the winning team ahead in the first place ... not the run that later became enough to keep them ahead.

if that is the case then if the reliever allows ten more runs to score and leaves the top of the 7th with the score 14 to 2 and then the starters teams bats in the bottom of the 7th and score 11 runs but the game ends 14 to 13 the starter would get the loss with your definition?

Are you arguing, or trying to understand?

It's not MY definition. It's THE definition. This is not a perceptional or optional thing for the scorekeeper. It's the RULE.

And yes ... the starter would get the loss in that situation.

And no... I don't care if you don't think that's right, I didn't write the rule.

so if the reliver had only allowed the on base runner to score and went out of the top of the 7th with the score 4 to 2and the starters team did as they did and scored two runs and tied the game at 4 to 4 end of 7th. so now we go into the 8th and the reliver gives up a run so its now 5 to 4 and the starters team bats in the bottom of the 8th and does not score so the game ends 5 to 4. By your staement the starter still gets this loss?

sixlehs - Your asking a scorebook question on an umpire forum - what do we care who is the winning pitcher or the loosing pitcher.

Now to be very simplistic. The loss goes to the pitcher who let the go ahead runner get on base. If the starter let him on base and he scores, and the game is never tied up in subsequent innings, he gets the loss. If a reliever comes in and then the score gets tied, the pitcher of record becomes the reliever and the game becomes his to win or loose.

I think you are talking to the starting pitcher here :D

So as I said previously if the reliever had only allowed the on base runner (charged to the starter) to score in the 7th score 4 to 2 and the the starters team comes back in the bottom of the 7th and ties it at 4 to 4. Then the reliver gives up a run in the top of the 8th now losing 5 to 4 and the starters team does not score in the bottom of eighth and game ends 5 to 4. Based on what you just said now the reliver gets the loss.

So waht you say is the rule is if the releiver gives up a 5th run in the 7th inning the starter is the loser but if the reliever gives up the same 5th run in the 8th he is the loser. If that is the official rule they someones was drunk when they wrote that one.

So as I said previously if the reliever had only allowed the on base runner (charged to the starter) to score in the 7th score 4 to 2 and the the starters team comes back in the bottom of the 7th and ties it at 4 to 4. Then the reliver gives up a run in the top of the 8th now losing 5 to 4 and the starters team does not score in the bottom of eighth and game ends 5 to 4. Based on what you just said now the reliver gets the loss.

So waht you say is the rule is if the releiver gives up a 5th run in the 7th inning the starter is the loser but if the reliever gives up the same 5th run in the 8th he is the loser. If that is the official rule they someones was drunk when they wrote that one.

So as I said previously if the reliever had only allowed the on base runner (charged to the starter) to score in the 7th score 4 to 2 and the the starters team comes back in the bottom of the 7th and ties it at 4 to 4. Then the reliver gives up a run in the top of the 8th now losing 5 to 4 and the starters team does not score in the bottom of eighth and game ends 5 to 4. Based on what you just said now the reliver gets the loss.

So waht you say is the rule is if the releiver gives up a 5th run in the 7th inning the starter is the loser but if the reliever gives up the same 5th run in the 8th he is the loser. If that is the official rule then someones was drunk when they wrote that one.

Simply put: The pitcher that gives up the lead, even if it's tied, gets either the win or loss. End of story.

Wanna complecate things more? Home team up 9-0, top of the 7th. Starter has pitched a beautiful 6 innings. Reliever comes in, gives up 9 runs to make it 9-9. Bottom of the 7th, leadoff batter hits a walk off homer. Guess who gets the win? THE RELIEVER!!!

winning pitcher
 

That makes sense in th 9-9 scenario, the releiver was the pitcher when the winning run was scored so he should get the win . In the case I origanlly described the pitcher of record when the opponents 5th run scored (charged to the releiver) in a 5 to 4 loss was the releiver so likewise the releiver should get the loss.

Gets the win if the winning run occurs while he's the pitcher and gets the loss if the winning earned run is scored against him while he is pitching.

What is missing?

Your understanding of the rules, apparently. No system is "fair" to all pitchers under all circumstances. So, the stat-heads picked one and went with it. Don't like it? I'm sure the rules committees would like to hear from you.

Look at it this way. The starting pitcher gave up the lead and his team never tied it up or took the lead. Since it was the starting pitcher's fault he gave up the lead, its his loss.

That said, we didn't write the rules and we don't even enforce this one!

winning pitcher
 

Already sent a note off to the FED rules committee, plain and simple accorfing to this "RULE" in the scenario I outlined if the releiver gives up the 5th run in the 7th inning the starter gets the loss but if the releiver would give up the 5th run in the 8th inning he gets the loss. So you have a rulle that fluctuates based on what inning it is, not asking you guys to do anything about I just wanted someone to confirm the rule so I could without question know how moronic that rule is.

Six, it's really not based on the inning - it's based on who's on the rubber (either on the field or on the line-up) when the other team goes ahead or ties up the game.

Part of the reason is just the nature of the game of baseball. If the starting pitcher hadn't let the other team get ahead 3-2, the manager probably wouldn't have replaced him. As many have pointed out (ad nauseum, in the case of the CLE-BAL "appeal play"), the dynamics of how a team plays a game are very much changed by different scores. When his team is behind, the manager may be more aggressive in some situations and less aggressive in others.

Yes, the rule may be unfair on occasion, but it's how baseball works. (I'm sure some of the more experienced baseball guys could tell you when that rule came into effect - I'd be willing to bet it's been in the book for a while.) That said, good luck trying to change it; you're going to run into a lot of headwind.

Records
 

Did you volunteer to go back over the history of FED baseball and rewrite the pitchers' records?

-LilLeaguer

Related
 

Or his Dad.

-LilLeaguer

Or his father. :cool:

Sixlehs
 

I'd suggest giving Bud Selig a call and getting him to change this rule as well.

Your thread gave me a great laugh. I'd suggest you give it a break though, because it's not worth the trouble to try and change a baseball statistics tradition that has been in existence for over 150 years. However if you have any other questions on scoring, or statistics you think are misleading, feel free to post them here.

I'm sure the FED guys will jump right on that :rolleyes:

My previous question stands. What is the relevance of this?