Strike Zone
 

I am a school coach who has started doing some rec umpiring as a prelude to moving up to the HS ranks when I stop coaching.
Tonight the coach was giving me a hard time about my strike zone. This is the same community in which I coach, and he kept saying "These aren't HS kids, they are 9 years old." He thought my zone was tight.
I give them the benefit of the doubt vertically, but nothing horizontally. My feeling is that 9 year olds can still hit a pitch a little low or a little high, but there's no way they can cover a pitch off the plate, especially the smaller kids.

What do you think? How do you adjust your zone for the lower levels?

As I recall, top of shoulders to bottom of knees and everything hittable in and out.

If I can get kids that age to get around the plate, I am likely going to call a strike. When you say you would not give anything horizontally, I would ask why? I know I give a ball or two outside during college games, I might give a little more at a 9 year old game if for no other reason to get kids to swing at the ball. I am not saying get ridiculous, but I would not expect them to hit corners like a Major League pitcher. Even Major League Umpires give a little bit on the corners some times.

Peace

Widen her up. As JR mentioned, bats reach. I was given that phrase my first year umpiring from a good friend. Especially in the black and blue!

Coach, since you're new to this, try and be a PITCHER'S umpire. Call strikes, everyone's happy, kids swing the bat, the game moves quicker.

I especially wouldn't be squeezing them at that age level.

The more strikes you call, the more they swing the bat, the better the game moves along. If you don't call strikes, they will not swing. You do not have to move too far outside or inside. A ball width will make a lot of difference. Once you start calling it and get comfortable with it, you will see the difference.

If it's one coach on one night, then forget about it.

If it's most coaches on most nights, then your zone is probably too tight for the expectations / desires of that league.

Nobody comes to watch their kid walk 3 times!!

Exactly! My son is playing in the 9 yr old league this season and as a parent you can never tell if the pitch is in or out - but you can tell if its high or low.

So its very easy to expand the zone in and out and highly recommended.

Make them swing the bat - the games are too boring as it is.

Don't worry about the coaches, they just want the game to move along also.

Thanks
David

The strike zone as defined in the rule-book was not meant for "rug-rats"
IMO, at that age baseball should be strictly instructional. Teach the fundamentals etc.

At the age of 9 kids should simply have fun and learn about the game. There should be a separate and distinct set of rules for "pee-wee" baseball if you will.

The other sports (Football/basketball/hockey) have separate and distinct rules for the pee-wee divisions and so should baseball.

You cannot expect the OBR rule-book (which most youth leagues use) to be a guide for 9 yr. olds.

Ok I know you didn't ask for my opinion on that. You asked about the zone. At that age, have a very BIG zone. No-one likes a walk-a-thon. Get the kids to start swinging otherwise they will not take the bat off their shoulders.

Pete Booth

tarheelcoach, you have experienced firsthand why umpiring youth ball is often far more difficult than umpiring at higher levels, where you can usually simply set up your zone and then call it the entire day.

I remember summers where my easiest assignments were in a league full of college pitchers. Nobody expected the umpire to make order out of chaos.

In college FP softball, I've had many a doubleheader in which there were only two or three walks total. Recently I had one with zero, and I even had trouble remembering whether we had seen a three-ball count. Games like those—where 75% of the pitches are strikes, even with the top of the zone lowered from the rule book definition—are cake, but everybody in the park thinks you did a great job. Further, the batters know that strikes are coming and are up there swinging, not looking for a walk. How many youth games have you seen in which half the lineup doesn't swing the bat at all, even on pitches right down the middle?

In some youth games, I've often had to remind myself, "Just don't call the kid out on a horrible pitch."

I will freely admit that (with kids) the batters themselves have often influenced my calls. Kid swings at strike 1 and strike 2, and then starts to go but holds up on a pitch two balls outside. I'd probably call that pitch a ball. But if the kid didn't lift the bat off his shoulder on the first two pitches, it's strike 3.

It's erroneous to think that the perfect umpire would simulate an electronic, laser-enforced strike zone where every pitch is an absolute ball or strike. Even in MLB, there's some subjectivity involved, whether anyone would publicly admit that or not.

Hey all,

I am probably one of the VERY few that you will hear this from...DON'T CHANGE A THING!!

From my perspective, kids learn to hit, throw and catch. Nowhere do I say pitch. They don't learn to pitch until it is time for them to do so in a game sometime that week.

If you eexxppaanndd the stike zone, you are then teaching a little kid that a bad pitch can/will be called a strike. You are also teaching the little hitters that they had better swing at a bad pitch because that "ball" will probably be called a strike.

Make the pitchers learn how to pitch, and everyone will be better off later on. These are your future HS players, aren't they?

LomUmp:cool:

It is not an umpires job to teach F1 how to pitch. That is the coaches job. Also, how is everyone better off if batter after batter simply keeps on walking.

Bottom Line that is why many do not umpire "kiddy ball".

Pete Booth

I've never heard of such nonsense!!!

The little kids I've seen play would rather stand there and walk if they know 1 out of 6 pitches will actually be called a strike.

If you start out with a large strike zone and slower move it to the correct zone when they reach say 11, 12 and for some leagues even older then they learn how to hit, run and field the ball.

It doesn't make sense to have the smallest strikezone (players that are sometimes 4' 3" tall) for the worst pitchers (youngest players).

Get the kids swinging the bat when their young and everyone is happy, players, coaches, parents and umpires!!

No lie there.

Hey all,

I never said it was an umpire's job. I am saying that I see umpires who expand their zone and all game long get the ooh's and aaah's from the bench and the crowd and the players (defensive ones, too!!) It's when it gets to the point where the defensive team is looking at the pitch and saying "WOW!", IMHO something is wrong and it opens the door from a player's early age that that umpires are to blame for the strikeout, out/safe call, loss by their team, or pick your poison.

My point is, where does it end on expanding the zone? An inch or two is one thing; toes to nose, box to box is something different.

LomUmp:cool:

Hey all,

True.

Does it make sense to call a pitch a strike that obviously comes in out of this 4'3" player's strike zone, in order to keep the game moving?

I sorry, I didn't realize that an umpire is there to make everyone happy.

LomUmp:cool:

LomUmp,

What I'm saying is that the only way kids are going to learn to actually play the game is to get the kids hitting the ball. Nobody learns anything if everyone walks the maximum number of runs each inning.

Give the 8-10 year olds BIG strike zones to develop their eye hand coordination, give the fielders opportunities to make plays, etc.

Your right, as umpires we aren't there to make everyone happy, but you must acknowledge that the role of an umpire changes as the players get older. When the players are young I will sometimes slide into a coaches role, if for example some 10 year that has never caught before sets up with his toes basically on the back of home plate. I'll tell the catcher to backup before he gets a bat in the back of the head, howver, I'm not going to tell some 23 year old man the same thing.

When I started umpiring 31 years ago, I had a real tight strike one in Little League. Then someone told me to open up the strike zone on the corners. I did that and the games moved along much more quickly. I still use the same philosophy in varsity ball today. One ball off the inside of the plate and two balls off the outside of the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so adding an inch or two off the plate doesn't make much of a difference because the bats are 36 inches long. In youth ball you definately want to open up the strike zone so that you don't have a marathon of walks. A LL game that should only last 1 to 1.5 hours will definately last 2 hours if you don't open up the strike zone. Also remember that coaches can't see corners from the dougout.

Hey all,

I agree with your last point. If it is a safety issue for the little ones, we will take care of it right then and there. If it is something they are just doing wrong, I'll let it go until it becomes a rules issue then explain it from there.

Just a point of interest, from what I have seen, there are almost as many adults, as there are kids, that still try to play/manage/coach that don't know/understand the rules in which they play.

LomUmp:cool:

Edited for spelling like one of the kids we are talking about....

The 9yo strike zone
 

This is my second year umpiring Little League. Last year, I know I had too tight of a strike zone for the 9&10yo's. This year, opening day, I opened it way up from top to bottom, from side to side. The other umpires seemed to follow and we had huge strike zones.

Now that we're over half way through the season, I've tighten up a bit. Last night I called a game where even though I was behind the plate, I was basically a base umpire. EVERY kid that came to plate laid off the bad pitches and swung at everything close. I think I had 5 called strikes on the night. Kids were swinging, the ball was in play and we played 5 full inning in under an 1.5 hours.

Both coaches told me what an outstanding job I did. I smiled and said "nope, I didn't do anything. Your players swung at the good pitches, laid off the bad pitches. I was just a spectator".

Last year I got roped into calling a championship game for 8yo's. My strike zone was chin to below the knees and 2 to 3 balls on either side. In between innings I had a coach tell me my strike zone was too small :rolleyes:

My advice to you calling 9yo's is, shoulders to anything low that the catcher can catch without the ball hitting the dirt, either side of the plate where the catcher can catch it without lunging, and move the plate with each batter. Try to find the strikes and if the kid has the bat on his shoulder with 2 strikes, anything hittable is a strike.

High school ball
I don't give anything more than red on black on the inside and try to stay consistent at 1 to 1.5 balls to the outside.
I think it gives way to much advantage to a good pitcher if you give him anything more than the plate on the inside and then be liberal on the outside as well.
Small ball
I still don't give anything off the plate to the inside(unless the kid is standing 2 feet off the plate)
but anything below the hands and just above the ankles and hittable to the outside I call.

I think the plate's 17" wide and the bats, even for the little tykes, are 30" long, which kind of argues against your theory.

The bottom line is if you're umpiring a walkathon, nobody's having any fun. With kids in a rec league, adjust to the level.

Frankly I don't like tweaking the zone but for 12YO's, I've seen it go from letters to just below knee. In and out just has to be hittable.

Recently our County High School Coaches were polled about how our Umpire Assoc. could improve. The #1 answer was (you guessed it) CALL MORE STRIKES!!!

I do not find this surprising.
Like us, the game keeps moving, everyone gets home sooner, ... and more strikes gives the illusion that their pitchers can actually pitch, because the coaches have been doing their job.

Funny!
 

Now that's funny! But true!:D

Having a 9 year old, last nights game was a better game because the umpire called many more strikes.

However, he was calling more high and low where if he would have expanded the zone the same amount on the in and out if would have been much better.

Parents complained all game long about high and low. Everyone wanted to know why the one a little inside was not a strike - or the one a little outside.

As has been mentioned, no one can tell if its inside or outside sitting in the stands. But everyone can see it was at 'lil Johnnys eyes and the umpire called it a strike.

Thanks
David

Just to clarify, I don't believe in calling truly bad pitches strikes, whatever the situation. If the pitcher throws 50 in a row that are over the batter's head or in the dirt, that's 50 balls.

This isn't just a theoretical point. A few years ago, I began a SP (men's) softball game with 48 straight balls. (Boy, was that game fun to work.)

Once on a business trip (to a Chicago suburb) I found a LL game near my hotel, so I sat in the stands for a while. The first 30 pitches would have been balls if the plate had been 6 feet wide and the batter 10 feet tall. And the 30 took about 20 minutes, as after each pitch the catcher waddled over to retrieve the ball from wherever it had ended up. When they decided to station a coach at the backstop to do the retrieving and "speed" the game along, I left.

Agreed! Open the strike zone liberally where applicable... Aside from little kids, try semi-pro... I did the "Latin Leagues" in Miami. Being from Boston, I believed that the talent levels would be greater??? Wrong! These guys continually try to pick inside and out and you'd think the plate had an infectious disease... Try a four hour nine inning game because of full counts and numerous walks in 90 degree 85% humidity conditions...

Strike Zone
 

In youth ball (12U), as long as you don't expand up or down too much you should be OK. MOST coaches want the kids to swing the bat, the others at that level know that walks turn into PB doubles, triples and more importantly RUNS scored and are subtly teaching a percentage of their kids to NOT swing the bat and draw the all-important walk.

One on the inside corner, two on the outside or visually anything between the two batters box lines, provided they were drawn by someone who can put them close to where they belong.

Nothing above the shoulders or in the dirt (You'll hear the whiny "how can I teach him not to swing at that if you guys are going to call it").

The kids finally enjoy playing a 4-3 or 5-3 game and a full six innings once in a while instead of the beer-league softball scores ended by darkness with four ugly innings in the books after 2 1/2 hours.

RANT OVER:D

As I stated before, IMO there should be a separate and distinct set of rules for the "pee wee' division of baseball.

Example to get my point across.

When my kids played Pee Wee basketball, there was no Full court press allowed until the last 2 minutes of the game unless the game was out of hand by then.

In addition, there had to be a minimum of 3/4 passes before you could shoot the ball so that the kids learned teamwork.

The strike zone as defined in any major rule-book did not have 8/9 yr. olds in mind when it was thought of.

I can tell you as both a Parent former coach and now an umpire no-one likes to see kid after kid walk. It is the most boring time one could have.

The kids are not learning anything. The fielders are not learning how to field properly, etc.

One could argue why have kids at that age pitch to begin with. At that age the league should be more instructional and not keep score etc.

Now to answer your question where does it end on expanding the zone?

It ends as soon as the kids start swinging the bats and not constantly leave the bat on their shoulders. I could care less about the ooh's / aahs from the coaches / parents. As an umpire especially in "kiddy ball" you hear ooh's / aahs no matter what you do. that's why many leagues do not have umpires at this level and have to get parents out of the stands to do the games.

Pete Booth

Call strikes, call strikes, call strikes...if you're consistent, you'll never hear anything from any coach, player, or fan, etc...(not that we care anyway)...but you all catch my drift...good plate umpires establish a zone, they stick with it, and players learn to swing the bat. Every pitch starts out as a strike until it proves to be a ball.

Agreed! Think about every game youv'e ever done behind the plate. Those pitches that are just off the plate that are called a ball is when you hear all those ooooos!! and ahhhhhhs! Call those pitches strikes EVERYONE WANTS YOU TO!!!!!!!

Everyone except the hitter.

Everyone except the hitter and all the fans of the team on offense. You can't please everybody ever.