Ejection
 

Hey Guys:

I wanted some feedback on a situation & ejection I had this afternoon.

Visiting team's head coach has a reputation in the area as a whiner. I completely blocked this out, but want to point out this is not some isolated problem with a solid coach.

Early in the game, there was some chirping on 2 pitches. One pitch myself & partner agreed I got correct, the other pitch my partner felt it could have been about 1/4 of an inch or so low. A pretty tight pitch. When he starts chipring from the bench, I give him a little bit of leash then give him a "thats enough." I left the mask on and everything, didnt provoke any confrontation. Bottom 6, 9-0 (I believe, visiting team is losing). Few close pitches dont go his way and comes out for a conference with his pitcher after that batter walked. I stay put on the opposite foul line, and after 80-90 seconds or so, its obvious hes baiting me to come out to the mound. Now Tee made a previous post about how in his area, plate umpires do not go to the mound, plain and simple. In our area, the opposite is true. So I head out there, and no surprise, hes waiting to "discuss" a bunch of close calls that didnt go his way. He mentions how "all these close calls are going the other team's way," "I want to make you a better umpire for the future," and "we need to be more fair." I warned him again saying we will not discuss balls/strikes, previous close calls, most importantly the crew's integrity, and that we were done. I turned around, and he followed. I warned him again, and as he kept going, I threw him out.

Any problems here (maybe besides going to the mound?) I figured hes gonna come at me no matter what.

*Edited the 80-90 seconds*

If you are serious about one of the pitches being "about 1/4 of an inch or so low" and that you let the visit go "a few minutes or so" before you went to the mound to break it up, then I fear for your perceptive abilities. If you're just using hyperbole for effect in both measurements, then no, I don't see any significant problem with your handling of the situation.

Hard to tell exactly how long the conference went. I would say a legitimate 80-90 seconds. A few minutes is not accurate, I apologize. I headed out there when I realized he was just stalling, ect.

My partner made the 1/4 of an inch comment. I felt the pitch was right at the knees. I think his point was if it was low, it was very very close.

As soon as he follows, done. No warning needed. You walked away, he didn't.

From his comments it might have been necessary for an earlier exit. He pretty much said you're incompetent. Especially after warning once already.

Agreed. Unfortunately in our area, high school ejections are non-existent. I think that was in the back of my mind. There is no question in my mind, however, that an ejection was appropriate. I just wanted the feedback of the board.

Can you elaborate for me please? Does this mean you're not encouraged to eject by the league, or they are so well behaved that it never happens?

Ejections are a part of baseball. They happen.

Believe me, I think it is insane/stupid, ect.

A lot of our top guys will always claim "they have never ejected somebody from a high school game." Now we all know, people who have worked for 20+ years without ejecting a coach are not doing everything right. It is strange in our area, but true, there are VERY VERY few ejections during high school games.

There are no outside pressures from our association or leagues, though. It is the overall makeup of our association I would say.

I'm sorry, I think that 80-90 seconds is way too long. I start counting to about 15 as soon as he hits the mound. That is if he is talking to the pitcher. If he is just standing there waiting, don't wait just go out there because he wants you out there to complain. The rest of the situation was fine I thought.

When did you and your partner have this 1/4 inch discussion, between innings or after the game? What position was he standing in on the field for this assessment?

If a coach goes to the mound to talk with the pitcher and it is obvious to me he is not talking to the pitcher but just waiting for me to come out, I oblige him immediately. 80-90 seconds would seem like a lifetime, maybe 20-30 seconds of time on the mind and I am heading out there to break it up. If you give a warning, don't do it twice.

MRM,

I find this a lot in my area too. Where in the US are you located? I'm in the mid-Atlantic/NE region, and I've found with a lot of people in this area of the country, it's the same.

Coach requests a conference - "TIME"

I brush off the plate and move off to the foul line, take out the score card and make sure that everything is up to date. If the conference is still under way, I head out to the mound.

Me - "Coach, are we ready to go here?"
Coach - "I want to discuss some of those calls....."
Me - "We are not going there today, Coach. Are you changing pitchers here?"
Coach - "No, but I want...."
Me - "Then we are done here Coach. Let's get on with the game."

Now I turn and walk back to the plate. Usually that is all there is to that but in your case....

Coach follows me, complaining about the calls.
Me, no longer in a subdued voice - "Coach, I said we are not discussing balls and strikes today, is that clear?"
Coach - "I said I want to ......"
Me - "Coach, are you arguing balls & strikes?"
Coach - "Yes, I don't like....."
Me - "Take a seat on the bus coach!"

It's that simple! Do not allow any discussion of balls and strikes from the head coach or manager of any team. I always ask "Coach, are you arguing balls & strikes?" so that they and everyone else know what is happening. This way when he goes by-by, he did it to himself and everyone knows it!

That is exactly the procedure we were taught. 80-90 seconds is way too long!

I don't think that you can be more concise then the way the Ozzy has stated it.

80-90 seconds is much to long. You can be sure that the coach is going to want to b**ch to you about balls and strikes. Why let it fester. Give the coach a sufficient amount of time (30 secs) to speak with his pitcher and go out to break it up. If the coach wants to continue.........

For what its worth, the pro school mechanic (as of 1997) is the following: If you know that the coach/manager is out at the mound solely to get an opportunity to "discuss" things with you, the plate umpire, should go out to the mound immediately and, in the words of Mills Lane, "get it on".

I don't mean that you go out there and initiate the arguing. But you do go out there immediately and "get it over with" and let him make his first comment to you. You then either (1) warn him or (2) eject him (depending on the severity of the first comment).

If you warn, then if he gives one more non-personal comment as he's heading back to the dugout (such as "bear down") then you let it go and get the game started. If he continues the discussion (especially if its about balls and strikes) and does not head back to the dugout then toss him.

One other comment: I NEVER start returning to the plate until the coach leaves the mound. Why? You're out there to break up a conference...you don't leave until the conference is broken up. Nothing looks more foolish than an umpire going out to the mound, and coming back to the plate area only to have the coach still talking to his pitcher.

In your case You should give him the warning and stay put. Don't be agressive, but don't back down by walking away. If he starts walking to his dugout, then you go back to the plate. If he then deviates from his course toward the dugout to come back and resume talking with you at the plate: toss him. If he continues to yell at you as he's walking to the dugout, toss him if appropriate. In otherwords, ANY time I go to break up a mound conference, I'm the last one to leave (except when a coach decides to bring in a new pitcher).

I agree with almost everything you say here. The one thing I'm not sure about is allowing the coach to tell you to "bear down." To me, depending on how audible this comment was, would be grounds for ejection. If it was said louder than under his breath, I would dump him. Steve Garvey earned his one and only ML ejection for telling Charlie Williams to "bear down." I don't know about you, but I never cared much for coaches who tried to tell me how to umpire.

I agree...I waited way too long. In the back of my head I was thinking, "Im gonna show him I know whats going on and give him one chance to avoid any situation." Sometimes you just cannot avoid these things.

To clarify what Steve & some others commented on, the discussion started on the way back from the conference. We got to the home plate area, and thats where I offered a warning and subsequently dumped him.

I know this flies in the face of everything we know is right, but I was so cautious because I know that based on my area, many would say I was "over agressive" in this situation.

Thanks to everybody who responded.

I don't know about heading out there immediately if you "Know" he's out there to discuss pitches with you. This isn't MLB. If you head out immediately, and it turns out he's calmed down during his trek to the mound, and is actually going to tell his pitcher something ... what are you going to do then? Instigate? Listen in? Neither are appropriate.

Treat ALL mound conferences the same. Mask off, Brush out, clean plate, check card, put everything away - 10 seconds or so. If he's still there start walking (unless you work in Oregon) out slowly - 10 more seconds. 20 is plenty.

And Ozzy's verbiage advice is gold.

In little league you might be right...but high school and college you "know" when a manager/head coach is only out there to discuss things with you. How do you know? Here are some signs:

(1) You can tell from the situation in the game. (For instance: Close calls going against defense/pitcher; pitcher may be complaining or staring in, etc.; and the tension in the game is so thick "you could cut it with a knife.")

(2) He makes contact with you as he heads out to the mound (maybe even shaking his head), or he just stares you down. OR as he goes out to the mounds he doesn't just stroll out to the mound like normal...but rather MARCHES very purposefully to the mound (as in he wants to get there very quickly...so he can get to talking to you very quickly).

(2) He gets out to the mound and doesn't even talk to the pitcher/players but for a second. Rather, he's spending more time looking down at his shoe as he kicks around the dirt around the pitcher's plate.

(3) The head coach has his back to you, but a middle infielder (who is at the mound) is looking over the manager's shoulder at you. (A very, very strong indicator that the middle infielder waiting to tell his manager, "here he (the umpire) comes."

With any degree of experience, the umpire "knows". At that point its time to "get it on".

Does anybody ever give any thought to the idea of restricting the coach to the bench first? This is what our people thought would have been most appropriate.

Please don't imply that I work LL. No offense to the LL'ers, but I'm not one of them.

How would I know what he's doing. I'm ignoring him, doing my job.

Again, how would I know.

All that said ... yes, I DO know when it's likely he's only going out there to get tossed. But there's nothing wrong with giving him 15-20 to cool down, and it might save an ejection. And it is certainly possible that if you decide to walk out there and meet him, he could simply begin issuing instruction to his pitcher to make you look the fool (and you WOULD look the fool). To me - walking out there like you suggest is simply baiting the manager.

Which is what at the point in time the coach asks you for time as he heads to his pitcher?


Now what are you doing?

You never walk to the mound to break up a conference? Not being facetious. I know that not all umpires do and, in fact, there are some areas where it is frowned upon.

Not implying that you work in LL...I am implying that your post that I first replied too in this thread was suggesting a LL-like mechanic. I've been to too many LL games (my son plays) where instead of dealing with a "non-routine situation" being created by a coach, the umpire puts his head in the proverbial sand and hopes that the situation will just go away.

(I've seen many an umpire who I just knew had to be thinking: "Maybe if I just stay here and sweep the plate till its real white, AND then re-set my indicator-clicky thing, AND then get some new baseballs from the ball boy AND then adjust my ball bags AND then re-draw the inside batter's box line for the next batter AND, AND, AND....he'll just leave the mound on his own and I won't have to talk to him.")

If you're ignoring him...then you are NOT doing your job.

I agree YOU wouldn't know, because, as I typed, you are likely not doing your job.

As I said above in this thread...you're mechanic is NOT the mechanic taught at umpire school, period. I know this the new mellow age of umpiring...and I have mellowed A LOT over the last 10 years...but sometimes Mr. Red *** has to come out. And if going out to the mounds when you know that the manager is waiting for you is being a Red *** (which I don't concede)...then so be it.

Garth ... please read my post that he was referring to - All of these questions are answered. I'm ABSOLUTELY not saying not to go out there to break up a conference. Of course you do. I was disagreeing with the comment made that "if you know the coach is only coming out to get himself ejected, you should go out there immediately and get it over with." I'm saying to handle this sitch the same way you would any other conference.