Pre-Game Conf, Things NOT to say!!
 

"Coaches, remember, if you come out to warm up the pitcher you must have a cup on".....

Please add your own, but remember, it MUST be true.

"It'll be a big strikezone today" (I am guilty of saying that once).

" If you don't like a call, I suggest you keep your comments to yourself". Thankfully, this idiot is no longer in our association.

"Before we start, do either of you have any questions for us?"

A rookie to coach after the third foul ball: "Coach, I've got no balls!"

"Your fly is open"

(which a partner once told me at the plate conference - the coaches got a big kick out of it :rolleyes: )

Start of plate meeting

Coach: "Boy am I glad we have you two today. We had (John Q. Public) and (John C. Public) and they just aren't very good anymore."

Partner: "Yeah, the game has passed them by."

I shot Death Rays at my partner, and gave him a big lecture after the game on how it is highly likely that that coach would be saying the same thing about him to the umpires at his next game's plate conference.

"Ball/strike......fair/foul........safe/out......belong to us. I don't want to hear a word out of you about any of those calls today."


The amazing thing is I tend to hear this explanation on judgment calls from several different guys each season.



Tim.

This came from a partner with 1 yr experience 38 times.

"Now remember guys all throws out of play will be two bases, the one they are going to, plus one"

One manager looks directly at me, with that you know that's not right look.
As we walked back toward the 1st base dugout he asked me why I didn't say anything. I replied "Skip if there are any base awards in this game they will be right"

My plate man in a D-1 game last night: "Is there a 10-run rule we need to know about?"

Uh, last time I checked, NCAA Division 1 games don't play under that. Duh.

Pre-Game Conf, Things NOT to say!!

Most everything other than:

Everyone legally equipped?
Skip, take us around.
Have a good game.

That about wraps it up eh? :)

"Is everyone legally equipped?"

I still maintain this is one of the stupidest things to ask. What do we expect a coach to say--"Uh, no. We have three illegal bats, two cracked helmets, and a wad of vaseline we intend to use."? :D

Garth you forgot the most important one.

Checks or cash gentlemen. That is probably number one because if we do not get paid at the plate conference there is no need to ask the other 3 questions on your list. I am predominately talking about Summer ball.

Pete Booth

It might sound stupid to you but it could save you a heck of a lot of money in the long run.

Pete Booth

FED rules require this question, UMP25. It referees to F1 having a cup and any other proper protection required (such as proper batting helmets). The question can only be answered by the responsible adult for the team (in my eyes, the head coach). It is also supposed to legally remove our responsibility if someone gets hurt because he didn't have his cup on (I'll believe that when I see it). The question has nothing to do with illegal bats (FED requires the umpires to check the bats for legality before the game) or Vaseline or anything like that. NCAA doesn't have anything that stupid - but it does want you to talk about sportsmanship and a couple of other things at the plate meeting, hummmmmmm?

Regards.

Had a coach ask at the pregame meeting the other day what my partner's strike zone was like.

I was shocked he answered. Even more shocked when he said "I'll give your pitchers probably a half ball on each corner."

:eek:

Oh, I know, and I'm not advocating people ignore FED's instructions regarding this. I just personally think it's stupid. It's not our job to be lawyers, just umpires. I'm still curious to know if any coach has ever said "No" when asked if everyone was legally equipped? :D

UMP25, you're correct, we are umpires, not lawyers, but, if something should happen to a player or coach because you didn't do something that you had control of, you might need a lawyer.

That never ocurrs to me, Pete, because here assignors collect game fees in advance and issue checks to the umpires on a monthly basis. This applies to high school, college and summer ball.

But how far do we take it? FED's requirements often, IMHO, go a bit too far.

BTW, how much do you want to bet that we all are, in some way, guilty of not doing everything EXACTLY as we "technically" should? ;)

Visitng coach: "No. Our catcher forgot to bring his mask on the bus with him today."

I guess that team either had only one catcher or only one set of gear because they ended up having to borrow one from the home team.

It may be a stupid thing to ask but you do ask it right? Are we forced to ask it for legal, or liability issues? I basically say... Are both teams properly equipped according to Federation rules? Would like you remind both teams about sportsmanship requirements, I give the groundrules, I usually don't ask the coach to give them, have a good game.

IMO, Apples / Oranges.

I believe most FED umpires do EXACTLY the way we should regarding Safety issues. Jewelry is a little more difficult to enforce sometimes because you cannot always see it visibly especially in the cooler months where the kids hide it under their sweatshirts.


Also, let's get real here.

takes all of 15 seconds to ask so what's the BIG deal.

Pete Booth

When a coach comes out to argue...

Umpire to coach:
"You thought that call was bad...you should've seen the call I made yesterday!" typically the discussion is over after that and everybody leaves with a grin...

This is a valid question. NCAA gives the option to have a mercy rule, IF approved by the conference and BOTH head coaches.

Yes!

I like the NAIA way better though! There is a 10 run rule unless specified at the pre-game meeting! :) We don't have to ask, and are encouraged not to!

Speaking of not calling certain things:

How many are diligently enforcing the "No white or grey on the pitchers glove" rule?

In Oregon, it has come down that simply rubbing some dirt on the white logo/lettering is enough to change the color for the rule, but I say that is splitting hair, and playing lawyer! I had a coach go ape dukey about that, because it still looked white!

Personally, if it looks white to me, that is that! I refuse to use the "rub dirt on it" approach because that is me playing lawyer, and I am told not to do so. :)

The rule is beyond ridiculous, and I figure by ruthlessly enforcing it, it will eventually get changed back!

I played ball for many years, and never once as a batter (who usually hit over .400!) did the glove, the sleeve color, and/or anything on his throwing arm cause me to hit any worse. I have never talked to a player who felt it did either!

I am not sure where these kinds of rules come from, but I sure do know it isn't from my area! :(

We're asking the coaches if the players are properly equipped not because of "liability" reasons (I'm an attorney so I can address this) but because otherwise we'd have to do the alternative of CHECKING each player's equipment. Asking puts the onus on the coach so that if there is a challenge on equipment or uniforming during the game the coach is on the hook.

I had long ago grown tired of checking soccer player's shoes and shin guards and wish we had that asking rule in FED soccer when I was doing it.

Somewhere along the line the home team coach has to provide to you what the prevailing ground rules are for his field. The umpire does not SET ground rules, only enforces them and decides what they are if BOTH coaches cannot come to an agreement on what they should be. Part of the pre-game conference is to talk about existing conditions and if they differ - for example - for a gravel area next to a dugout at the end - is it live ball or dead ball territory. I worked one game where there was an area within the confines of the fence but tarped over with old tires holding it down. It was made clear by HT that the area was DBT however it got there, even though fielders had full access. I said OK, let's go, and that was that.

It's a stupid question when the conference in which the game was played does NOT utilize this. My partner should have known this. I have never worked a D-1 conference that has.

No. I don't.

But that's because I don't do FED ball anymore. ;)

Disclaimer: I have nothing against those who do. Hopefully this will discourage some hypersensitive chap here from throwing a hissy fit. :D

Please explain to me how as an umpire, you could be expected to know the ground rules of each and every field you work on? Why would you not want the home team coach to cover the ground rules at his park?

I had two games scheduled in one week at the same school. In the span of 2 days, what used to be open field was now fenced with temporary fencing and other additions were made to the field. The ground rules had changed considerably between Tuesday and Friday. Don't assume anything.

So what do you do if they don't have it? Leave?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just actually curious.

My assignor says: just do the game... you'll get paid, don't worry. if the team stiffs us a game fee, they immediately get cut off from getting umpires until they pay up.

Had this one last year;

Coach "Hey blue, are you calling the corners today?"

The Plate guy (I was on the bases)"Can your pitcher throw it there?"

Needless to say it was a long day.

Although not at the plate conference, I had a partner say, "I'm not gonna take any $hit today!":mad:

He exclaimed this right in front of the home team's dugout as we were walking to the plate for the conference. :eek:

When the coaches got there, the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I couldn't wait to end the meeting and get away from my partner, I had the bases.

BTW- They rode him mercilessly... it was a hoot!:D

Ump25
I did not realize that hissy fits were thrown anywhere but the deep south.

As for the ground rules....I think it depends. Sometime this season it is possible that I'll do a college DIII game on a field that I have umpired almost 400 games on. The college team occasionally uses this field when their field is unplayable (April in New England being what it is). Who better to give the ground rules, the manager or me?

Along these lines, we had this guy that ended his plate conference with, "This is your one warning right here, so I don't want to hear anything about my calls, is that clear?"

Way to set a good tone for the game :rolleyes: . I was embarrassed for everyone there.

After I worked the bases that day, I had the clown scratched from being assigned with me, and I never had to work with him again.

I have, though it's much more likely in non-conference games.

IMO
It's not a matter who's better, it's a matter of courtesy.
Out of courtesy to the HT manager you should defer to him for ground rules. If it's not his regular field and he forgets something, you can always tactfully remind him.

If the home coach wants to play with different ground rules than are normally played at the field, it's his right as long as the visiting coach agrees. Who is the umpire to usurp this process?

This was bad.

HTC, "Ground rules? Oh you mean like field rules?"
PU, "Yes, anything I need to know"
HTC, "Well we have the occasional dead body in backstop area but nothing else."
PU, "huh?"

(Background: A drug related homicide had occurred and a body was found behind the backstop On Opening Day of the Season. Everything was postponed for a week but the League had erected a tarp over the backstop to keep the chalklines out of player view).

Yuk

All of these are actual:

#1
At the plate conference:

Partner (to coaches): "A priest, a minister and a rabbi walk into a bar..."

Do you really need to hear the rest to know that I was pissed?
--------------------------------------------------------------
#2

Partner (to me, before coaches arrive): "You got great pitching, should be a quick game."

Me: "Will you shut the F up!"

The jinx was on!
__________________________________________________ ___
#3

Partner (after having had a detailed pre-game meeting before we came on the field): "Now tell me again, when do I go out on a fly?"

Me: "Oh, shi(t)."
__________________________________________________ _____
#4

Partner: "Call a big strike zone tonight, I have to get to another field for another game after this."

Me: "Up yours."

Best things ever said at a plate meeting at which I was a participant:

Manager: "I want to talk a minute about last night's game."
Me: "No you don't."
Manager: "Yes I do. You guys were horse(crap) last night and really put us in a difficult situation, and you've been horse (crap) all year."
Me: "Is that your line-up card?"
Manager: "Yeah"
Me: "Can I have it."
(Manager gives me the card)
Me: "Good, now Good-bye!"
__________________________________________
Manager: "We need to hurry up tonight. Heavy rains are coming, and once it gets here it ain't gonna stop."

--Halfway through the meeting, It begins to rain---

Me: "Gentlemen, we'll finish this meeing up later. Keep the boys in the dugout."

Me (30 minutes later): "See you tomorrow."
__________________________________________
Manager: "Boy are we glad to see you, the guys we had last series were brutal."
Me: "Funny, they told me the same thing about your team earlier today. I came here to see for myself."
__________________________________________
Head coach: "We're ready to go, blue, but we only have 7. The others will probably be here after the basketball game is done."

Me: "We're done...and, skip, I need my paycheck."
__________________________________________

I would love to explain to you why I give the ground rules. I am conducting the pre-game conf. I am in control. I like to give the ground rules because it shows that I am in control. If I have never done a game on the field... I usually say "ok ground rules... stop me if you have something different and we will discuss it." I can usually go around the field without much trouble, if and when I get to an area where I am unsure, I ask a question. It just shows the coaches and players that I am the authority... not them. I like it when the coaches don't say much at the pre-game conf. and throughout the game itself. Just my opinion, for what its worth.

More like "Out of control"

Oh. One of THOSE umpires.

Why is it so important for you to prove your power to the world? You don't need any of this rigamarole to show you are "in control" - if you ask me, it shows me that you seem rather unsure of your control if you feel the need to assert it so strongly.

To each their own

But IMO

If deferring the explanation of ground rules to the HT manager lessens my position of authority on the field that day I have serious problems.

Quite frankly more authority is shown using the traditional method.
For example:

Option 1

PU
"Frank, won't you take us around the field and explain the ground rules"
I just told the coach what to do, and he did it. How much more authority do you need than that?

Option 2

PU
"OK, here are the ground rules......blah blah blah....."

Frank
"No Don, the tarps in play today" insert any change, addition, or oversight you wish.

Now Frank just trumped you. He corrected you and you must submit. You just relinquished authority in this situation.

Just maybe there's a reason HT manager giving the ground rules is traditional.

It's worth about $0.00000000000000001 per word. Maybe less.

Lineup cards, home coach gives the ground rules, start game. I'm in quiet, perfect control.

Do you demand a loyalty oath at the end?

I am talking summer ball only. In HS like Garth we get our monthly check

In summer ball with the exception of Tournaments (the assignor gets the money up front and pays us after the tournament is over) we get paid at the plate.

if we do not get paid at the plate we do not do the game. We inform the assignor and good luck on those teams getting umpires in the future.

Using your scenario you could do a Double Dip and not get paid for some 5/6 hours of work.

Also, at least from my experience, I am not going to wait around until AFTER the game to get paid - too many problems.

The aforementioned is the accepted practice in the association and area in which I work.

As they say to each his own

Pete Booth

I think it depends.

If I'm getting paid by a coach - then I definitely want it up front, as this could be the LAST person you want to be either waiting on or having a conversation with after the game.

If I'm getting paid by site admin, however, I have no problems getting it after - heck, sometimes they have to work up the concessions to pay us, and don't even have it beforehand.

If it's a HS game though, it's usually a check in the mail round here.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

In a perfect world maybe.
But in reality it just makes the lawyers richer

I'd rather run the risk of not getting paid for a date than look like I'm walking to the plate with my hand out.

Is she related to Lulabell? :D

Of course!:P

For HS we do not get a monthly check- paid at the pregame meeting like summer.

But yes, what i was referring to when my assignor says "don't worry, you'll get paid" is that we will eventually (probably by next meeting) get paid in full for whatever we worked and didn't get paid up front for.

I would never wait around until after a game for money. Too much bad stuff can happen as you said. My partners are not going to up and leave, make everyone go home, and reschedule for another day just because they don't have the money up front. We will get our money and the coach will be severely repremanded by our assignor, but just up and leaving is not the way we want it handled in our area.

Likewise, if i umpired in your area, i'd do the same as you.

No, I expect him to say "yes." Then when, as in a game last week, his catcher comes out with an illegal helmet and mask after being warned in a previous game, I toss the coach's sorry butt along with the catcher.

Just so we're clear, at least as of 1997, it was an accepted and taught mechanic at pro school that the umpire, if he knew the ground rules, could and should give the ground rules at the plate meeting.

This would be especially true if you were in higher levels of baseball where they post the ground rules in the umpire's locker room (before the game) OR if you've been in the league for multiple years such that you knew the ground rules in each park backward and forward.

I always give the ground rules at the pre-game meeting if I now them (which I admit, is not always the case on the amateur level). If I'm wrong, the home coach will correct me (hasn't happened, yet.)

I have, however, finished a plate conference and had a coach say, "Damn, son, you're the most prepared umpire I've ever met." (That is a true story). Needless to say, I did not hear a peep that game.

IMHO, it shows that one is in control of the game in a positive manner (not in a dictatorial manner). I think the Star Wars references are out-of-place in this matter.

It is, of course, perfectly acceptable to allow the home coach to give them. I'm just suggesting that it is also perfectly acceptable for the plate umpire to give them in the alternative. I've found the positives far outweigh the negatives.

It's called humor, perhaps even a wee bit of sarcasm. Loosen up those panties a bit and enjoy life.

I can appreciate good humor. For instance, there have been many posts in many threads on this and other umpiring boards where a reply post suggesting that the original poster was acting like Palpatine would have been pretty funny. This was not one of those threads, IMHO.

I do not lack a sense of humor just because this attempt at humor fell flat.

You want humor? then go to You tube and seach for "Death at Home Plate a Little League Tragedy."

Are you getting royalties for that vid, or what? ;)

Nah, it just broke up a very, very long day at work yesterday.

sorry, the emperior sound bite was very funny, and relevent to the conversation.

My friend, you need to get laid! :D

when a coach confirms that the players are properly equipped is the start of an excellent defense for the umpire should something happened and you get named in a lawsuit...

So would bringing out releases for them to sign.

Admittedly, it has been a long, long week at work. Turned in a lot of games!

(Sigh)...was going out with the wife tonight, for a night on the town...but then my son's LL game got moved from Saturday afternoon to tonight. I have no idea why. And I got that news via voice mail last night.

Releases is a good idea, but it's more work than it's worth...those are proven to not mean squat in court...hopefully none of us have to worry about being named in a law suit...that would suck.

More wrong you could not be.

[QUOTE]Rich for what it's worth, my assignor explains this Crystal Clear in the summer meetings with the leagues we service.

We do not go to the plate with our hands out but the leagues no Up front how we get paid.

As mentioned it all depends upon what's the accepted practice where you work.

Pete Booth

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]
I understand completely, I was doing some games here in Texas (Connie Mack) After the pregame meeting my partner asked for payment at the plate. This is part of what the league does here. Plain and simple, if you dont ask for payment, some coaches will stiff you!:eek: