Starting, then stopping, the windup.
 

NFHS rules.

Nobody on, pitcher in the windup position. He starts the windup, stops and resets. Is this legal? I think it is in OBR, but what about NFHS? If it is not legal, is it an illegal pitch, dead ball, and a ball awarded?

It is NOT legal in NFHS (see 6-1-2).

Penalty -- The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. A ball is awarded the batter (with no one on)

yep, like he said, ball with nobody on.

OBR- it is nothing.

Only in NFHS... seems they like to award the offense for just about anything the pitcher does no matter a runner on or not. Their reasoning, if it's illegal with a runner on, it should be with no runners on. Regardless of an advantage gained or not.....so... illegal... ball to batter, balk if runners on

But in their infinite wisdom, they allow the pitcher to go to his mouth while in contact with the rubber... they are geniuses at FED HQ, you gotta admit.:rolleyes:

Deal With it
 

Suddenly, something gets in my eye, and I as the umpire, call time.

OR

My hand accidentally has a cramp and it looks like I am telling the pitcher not to pitch,

and voila,

No violation.

Really, I think a lot of umpires would just ignore the infraction and start the pitch all over, and I would be surprised if there was a problem with doing it from the offensive team' side.

[cynicism] But, make sure you always call the FED rules as they are written in the book, so you pass the umpire professionalism part of the FED Points of Emphasis each year... [/cynicism].

In Illinois the IHSA says it's still a balk. Bringing the hand up is the start of the pitching motion. Balk.
I never had a problem of pitchers doing this when it was illegal anyway.

F1 has to wipe his hand off before contacting the ball.

Not in Illinois. ;)

PA says it's a ball any time the pitcher goes to the mouth while on the rubber whether he wipes or not (except after he's come set or assumed one of the windup positions, then it's a balk). So pretty much it's exactly like the pro rule except replace "18 foot circle" with "rubber" in the wording of the rule.

And this is exactly the problem with the NFHS rule(s). Same code, different interpretations. If FED would stop tinkering with the rules, we wouldn't have this.

I went to the last rules meeting in Illinois on the 15th. The IHSA had new information for the going to the mouth rule. It seems that the NF has made a mess of this rule. We were told to disregard any NF publication in reference to this rule. Here is Illinois guidelines, and they were not this way at the early rules meetings.

Nobody on. Pitcher on the rubber. Goes to his mouth then touches the ball. Dead ball. Ball to batter.

Nobody on. Pitcher on rubber. Goes to mouth, wipes off, goes to ball. Nothing

Runners on. Pitcher on rubber. Goes to mouth. Dead immediately. Balk.

I'm guessing the latter is because of the movement, not because he went to his mouth.

Here it is:

Runner on. Pitcher on rubber. Goes to mouth. BALL

Runner on. Pitcher on rubber and set, both hands in front of his body. Goes to mouth. BALK, not for going to his mouth but for separating his hands after being set.

The IHSA rules interpreter said that in Illinois we are to call a balk immediately with runners on and the pitcher goes to his mouth. With no runners it is a BALL only if he fails to wipe off.

This is a major problem. Often times we are told by assignors or interpretors (either association or state) that some rules are subject to more lenient enforcement.

But what happens when you don't call whats written in the book and are questioned by a manager as to why you're ignoring a certain rule? Is there going to be a protest that will be upheld?

For this example, "Blue, that's a balk! You gotta call that!" In response, the umpire steps in it and says, "I know that's what's written, but I was told to let it go."

Are we going to be backed up? I would hope so, but there are no guarantees. This, IMO, is hanging the officials out to dry. Why not just follow OBR in this case? I see no safety issue, so is the NFHS just being stubborn?

I agree with your second interp. I do not believe your first is correct *IN IL* (I don't know what state you are in).

North Carolina

I would suggest using the rule and case book on that one. Both have it right. That is... it's illegal while in contact with the rubber to go to the mouth regardless with runners on or not, balk with. Look at 6-2-1A in the case book. Those wonderful Fed interps or is it twerps... have it wrong. This will also keep you from pulling out your teeth and hair tying to figure out how they could come up with such a ruling. I also keeps it in line with all other rules sets. That was their intent IMHO.

If they want this rule to be inline with other codes, that's great. Then why don't they just adapt the wording exactly like the other codes? It doesn't make any sense, if they think they made a mistake, just change it back and be finished.

BTW- any of you older guys remember if FED ever had the rule book even remotely close to OBR as far as wording and layout? I've been doing this for about 9 years, and the first time I read the FED book, I was blown away.

Illinois requires a coach attend the rules meeting so they have heard the same thing we have, and should not have to deal with that of a coach saying but in the book it states.......

I am familiar with a coach who knows just as much, if not more, about the rules than a lot of umpires. Try sneaking that by him in a game and I'll bet he'd call you on it.

Any comment JM?

I was not implying sneaking anything past any one I was just stating that Illinois has the coaches’ attend the rules meeting.

The umpire would not have to tell the coach that it states one thing in the rule book and the umpire is calling it another way.

By state association they have adopted a different interpretation of the current rule.

It would be interesting to see how the FED responds to a written statement from IL that they refuse to call this.

Just got my latest Referee. They're publishing that the pitcher can go to his mouth while on the rubber anytime before he commits to pitch. That is, in the wind up, he can go to his mouth after stepping on the rubber before bringing his hands together, as long as he wipes. From the set same thing. ON the rubber, takes his sign, brings his hand up and goes to his mouth, wipes, then comes set, legal. Of course this is in direct violation of 6-2-4-D. Just a terrible rule no doubt. Of course, we have a rules committee member in our association, however, he will not return emails or calls. Imaging that. So, call it as you see best. Good luck

At my rules interp meeting we got the following

Off the rubber - wipe - NO PENALTY
Off the rubber - no-wipe - BALL
On the rubber - no runners - either way - BALL
On the rubber - runners - either way - BALK

They have basically said they are ignoring the rule change and reverting to last year.

These interpretations came off of the IHSA rules interpretation powerpoint presentation.

If that's from the meeting at the UMPS clinic, then the IHSA ruling has been changed since then.

How much more ridiculous could it get?
 

Here's the interpretation given by our rules interpretor last night:

Off the rubber
With or with out runners
Wipe- nothing
No wipe- ball

On the rubber
With runners, in the stretch position
Wipe- nothing
No wipe- ball
With runners, wind up position, if both hands are at F1's side
Wipe- nothing
No wipe- ball
If glove is in front of body, pitching hand at side
Wipe or no wipe- balk

What is going on here? Is there a good reason for FED to not just use OBR rule in this instance? :confused:

In what state was that?

Connecticut...

Is it me, or is this getting out of hand?

It depends on what you mean by "this." :)

I don't remember the specific issue, but a rule change a few years ago was treated the same way -- different states had different interps for the first year.

Hey ctblu40, in Southern CT, we were told the same as BigGuy just last Sunday:

Off the rubber - wipe - NO PENALTY
Off the rubber - no-wipe - BALL
On the rubber - no runners - either way - BALL
On the rubber - runners - either way - BALK

See guys, just like the gorilla arm last year! We can't even get this State to agree on the rule interpretations! Well, during the post season here in CT, it's going to be fun.

Here's an idea for the FED. It's a disgusting habit anyway so ban it on the dirt like OBR and let's get on with our lives!

I assume you mean the New Haven area... I'm on the Eastern Board... we may live only 20 miles apart, but are being told that the interpretation we received was exactly what Ray Faustich said at the State meeting. I'm sure that's what your rep said as well.
Bob- What I mean by "this" is that FED has rules that are not being given consistant interpretation. CT is a small state, how can the difference be that large?

My suggestion to the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee, got to the OBR book for this, "on the dirt- ball." Everyone understands this one (I hope).