New Umpire advise
 

I am trying to decide if I should start umpiring baseball. I am already doing volleyball and basketball and just trying to fill the gap. Any advise would be great! Thanks!

Do you know anything about baseball?

If not don't worry.....it hasn't stopped a lot of guys from umpiring.

sorry guys...I do know some about baseball, but not much...the basics and i mean the basics...but i am willing to work hard to learn all the finer rules...

LMAOOOO.....true..so true!

IHSAref,

I wonder if you would be willing to take a simple test.

This is kind of a "tradition" on this board when somebody new posts here. We like it, because it helps us better figure out how best to frame our answers to the questions you might have.

And most new posters think it's kind of "fun", in a mildly challenging way.

So, answer these three questions.

With 2 outs, a 2-2 count, with runners on 2nd & 3rd in the bottom of the last inning with the home team trailing by one run, the batter takes a might swing at an "inside middle" pitch and hits the ball off his hands and it dribbles down the 3B line. As the (RH) batter takes off for 1B, he has a minor "tangle" with the catcher who is attempting to field the ball before it crosses the foul line.

The catcher gets the ball, but as he's firing the ball to F3, he slips and throws wildy. As F9 retrieves the errant throw, the R3 and R2 touch home plat, and the BR comes into third standing up.

As the ball comes into the infield, the defense appeals that the BR missed 1B (which he did - by a LOT) and the BU saw it.

Your question is, "Who won the game"?

Ozzy, you want to give him question #2? Or, you know, whoever's on now, Garth? DG?

JM

Nahh. When I read this: "I am already doing volleyball and basketball and just trying to fill the gap", I tuned him out. There are many good reasons to umpire baseball. Filling the gap is not one of them.

It's not a reason to keep officiating, I agree, but a lot of good officials have started with that mindset. It's how I started working football and I got hooked, quickly.

I'm somewhat new to this forum, but have been calling ball games for a while now. Can I answer?

My answer: Neither team wins, I run both benches for making a travesty of the game and walk off the field, leaving my partner still in B to deal with the impending riot. It doesn't matter though because I'm stylin' with my matching patent leather ball bags, plate shoes and belt complemented perfectly with my custom Member's Only plate coat.

OK seriously now....IHSA I don't have much advice because I've grown up with baseball, I couldn't wait to turn 13 so I could start umpiring games with the local Little League. I've found the passion for the game is what has made being an umpire so enjoyable. I think if you like baseball and know what its like to be an official, give it a shot, you may love it.

If you're in the mood to sample sports, try out fast pitch softball too. I did that for a few years and while the games were still fun, they definitely weren't baseball games. I know in my area, an ASA umpire starting out could make more money than a youth baseball umpire, if that's a concern at all.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Not all good officials start and stay for pure reasons. If it wasn't for the money grubbers or time fillers I'd never fill the league I assign.

Some of the best in my league are purely in it for the money, too. It happens.

Rich....the only "reason" I addressed was "to fill the gap."

I didn't say it wasn't a reason, I said I didn't believe it was a good reason.

Fisrt off the Pitiching Team won the game. Second off yeah I want to ump to fill the gap but not only that....I also want to give back to the community. I am not worried about the paychecks at all.

I am not being a wise a$$ here - go down to your local LL or kiddie ball and watch the guys/kids umpire there. If you want to give back, that's a great place to start. See if you can grab a rule book from them (if not an MLB rule book will do for now) and read it! Ask questions and keep your eyes open. As an official, you will pretty much spot the good officials from the bad ones. Stick with the better ones.

Regards,
Ozzy

Did you happen to see this part:

"the batter takes a mighty swing at an "inside middle" pitch and hits the ball off his hands..."

OK, chalk it up to what I was drinking :)

I've found with my knee injury this winter I have plenty of things to help me fill the gap. It's making me re-evaluate whether I really need to (I should say "want to" cause I sure don't "need to") work 3 sports year-round.

1. PWL: You might check out my post to the new kid above.

2. Rich: Sorry to hear about your injury. Did you read my installment on preventing injuries?:D

Injury has been on my mind recently. I've been assigned to work some semi-pro football games this spring I watch a couple last year. The players are primarily D-1 kids who didn't get drafted and either intend to walk-on or think they have something to prove. They play with abandon and you know the position I work.

Batter was struck by a pitch while swinging at it...

#2 Runners on 1st and 2nd (I will refrain from using R1 on 2nd and R2 on 1st to keep from confusing anyone new), 1 out. High fligh ball to SS over near 2b, runner on 1b runs to 2b and is on his way to 3rd when he passes the runner on 2b who is coming back to the bag. They don't touch each other. SS takes his eye off the ball as the runner from 1b goes by and the runner on 2b takes a look at the runner from 1b who just passed him and as he does he is struck by the fly ball on it's way down.

What are the call(s)?

IFF, BR out.
Runner on 1st out for passing Runner on 2nd.
That makes the 3rd out.


Did I blow it?

Let's start with 911.:)

No, but I blew the example, try it with none out.

why waste time
 

why would you waste 5 minutes of your time to write all that out....when it all stops when he swings and it hits his hands...

That's exactly the reason to write it all out, to see who knows the rule and who's paying attention.

Notice that the two who responded to the situation got caught up in all the action that followed and overlooked that time should have been called when the pitch struck the batter's hands during the swing.

IFF, BR is out.

R1 is out for passing R2. Dead ball, R2 stays at 2nd. 2 outs and an ice pack for R2.

So close. Hint: R2 can't have an ice pack at second.

That's what I get for being trying to be funny. My fiance keeps telling me that I'm the only one that finds myself funny, maybe I should start listening to her. ;)

I'd have to be a member. I'm not. I can't even get an answer as to whether there's going to be a 2007 BRD :)

IT was only a hint. The ice pack isn't what's wrong with your answer.

In other words, he could enjoy the ice pack on the bench...;)

IFF BR out #1
R1 pass R2 out #2
Batted ball hits R2 out #3
Triple play !!

This is my attempt:

Infield fly, batter is out.
Runner at first is out for passing the runner at 2nd.
If the runner at 2nd base was on the base, he's not out (although I cannot say I am 100% sure whether it's a dead ball or not, but I would assume so because the runner did get hit). If the runner is off the base he's out for being touched by an infield fly.

Did I get it right?

I think canada got the wording correct.

What's the matter, Paul, your playmates ignoring you?

Classic...

IHSAref,

Now that we've all had a little fun, let's see if we can't actually try to answer your question, which, if I understand it correctly, is:

"Should I start umpiring baseball?"

and,

"If I should, how should I go about getting started?"

Ultimately, you have to answer the first question yourself. Some seem to suggest that the way you ask the question indicates that you really shouldn't, while others suggest that even asking the question indicates you ought to at least give it a shot.

Should you decide to give it a shot, I think ozzy has given you some very good advice, namely, go watch a few games at the level you would plan to officiate. Whether that's youth ball or (inferring you do basketball and volleyball at the HS level) High School ball or whatever.

He also suggests getting a rule book and reading it. Also very good advice. After reading it, you should be confused about some things. If you're not, you didn't read it very carefully.

If you decide you'd like to try it, I would suggest that you join an association. This will provide a pool of umpires that you can turn to with questions, and most associations provide some degree of training for their members. Attend as many training clinics as you can. Then, get out there and start calling games. Reading books and getting training is great, but there's really no way to truly understand how to umpire without getting out there and doing it.

I know quite a few basketball referees who also umpire baseball, so you may be able to get some of your current colleagues to help you find an association and get started.

Different umpires have different reasons for umpiring. Some do it for the check, some do it to "give back" to the game or the community.

For me, neither of these is a primary motivation. From my perspective, there are a lot easier ways to earn money and the game will get along just fine without my contribution; I choose to contribute to my community in other ways.

I umpire because I enjoy it, I find it challenging, and I like baseball. Plus, you get to wear tights and nobody makes fun of you for it! ;)

JM

Not to be preachy or controlling or anything, but if the paycheck isn't important IMHO coaching a team would be helping the community much more than umping. Lord knows the world needs more coaches that actually care about the kids rather than caoching just to get their kid playing time.

Whether IFF should have been called or not I don't know, high fly is a relative term and we don't know weather conditions or original placement of fielders.
DG never said IFF was called, which if it was it should have been prior to hitting R2.
Since IFF was not called. Correct ruling would be R1 out for passing and R2 out for interference BR on 1st with 2 outs.

Iff BR is out.
R1 is out for being stupid - passing R2
If I'm reading this right, R2 is back on the bag when he is hit by the ball... he gets a bruise. If he's off the bag.. then he's out also

Don, Im sure you are aware that IFF doesnt have to be called to be an IFF. As long as the IFF conditions are met, the defense and offense are expected to know the situation....

That's why i prefaced with saying I did not know weather conditions, original placement of fielders and mentioning that "high fly" is a relative term. Not every pop up in an IFF situation is an IFF.

I'm sure DG assumed that we would all assume it was an IFF, however, as a contrarian I chose not to make that assumption.

archangel,
As I'm sure you are aware, it's only an IFF if the umpire judges that it could have been caught by an infielder with ordinary effort. In this particular case, I can't tell. How can you?
JM

" High fligh ball to SS over near 2b"

Since SS is a player not a location, he is camped under the ball. The ball is coming "to" him. IFF criteria is met. Oh and How do I know what the umpire is thinking, because these are, "you're the umpire, How would you rule", situations.

The wording used does not require assumption on anyone's part, it is very straight forward. but thanks for trying to be that "Fly".

If you want to get snotty about it...
 

I agree, it doesn't require assumptions. So why do you insist on making them?

I didn't see the words camped in the OP, if you think he was camped you've made an assumption. If he was camped, R3 would likely had to have made contact with F6 prior to getting hit by the ball. Unless you assume F6 voluntarily moved out of R3s way. No mention of this in the OP.

You're also assuming to know exactly what the DG meant by "fly to SS"


Since no location on the infield (except pitchers mound and maybe up the middle) actually has an easy location term associated with it ie RF, LF CF, many times the location is described by the normal playing position of an infielder or simply by referring to the infielder who had the best opportunity to make the play. For example
While my grandmas in the bathroom a slow grounder is hit toward F4, F3 however cuts it off and makes a great toss to F1 covering. One out.
Grandma comes back and sees one out on the board and asks " how'd they make the out" I respond "Grounder to first"
The ball was neither hit to the first baseman or to first base but since F3 is the one that made the play "grounder to first" is an acceptable answer.

back to the OP
"Hi fly to SS" could very well mean the SS was the only fielder making an attempt on the ball or if the fly was to the left of the bag some may just assume it to be to the SS regardless or where F6 was at TOP, in either case it doesn't have to mean he's camped and has a play with ordinary effort. Unless you assume it to be.
Even if SS was close we could have gusting winds and a high sun. The ball could be up near the short stop but he loses it in the sun, maybe a gust of wind takes it at the same time. I don't have an automatic IFF.

Since DG did not say that this fly should be caught with ordinary effort I chose not to assume it when I made my ruling.
You obviously did. Not that there's anything wrong with that, you're the umpire---Assume away

"High fly ball to SS over near 2b". Wind could be a factor in determining IFF, sun is not. It's not part of question 2 to assume something not presented. A high fly ball to SS over near 2b in this case is an IFF whether called or not. And why don't you just tell Grandma what really happened?

Wind is a factor. And you're joking about the sun right?

What part of my "contrarian" post do you not understand?

Apparently Grandma has a better understanding of what "grounder to first" means than you do.

No I'm not joking. Do you make IFF calls when the ball reaches it's peak and then reverse the call when the fielder doesn't catch it because he lost it in the sun?

I understood your post completely. You read a simple play and questioned whether the positioning of the SS, the wind and the sun made it more difficult than it seemed (ie assumed something not presented) and therefore maybe not an IFF. I expect most others read "high fly ball to SS over near 2b" and instantly thought IFF.

A grounder toward F4 that F3 cuts off and throws back to F1 covering is not a grounder to first for most announcers of the game.

I do declare, That I think Contrarian might mean the same as TROLL!

Working on the none out theroy, following the thread of what if's:mad:


OK, I think I got it now.....It may or may not have been an IFF, being the ball was hit by second base, it most likely wasn't a bunt, but could have been a hard push. It was high, so most likely not a line drive. It could have been a texas leaguer, then again, maybe not. The second baseman could have been camped under it, and maybe not, because it wasn't clearly stated, but than again, he could have been. Since it's not clearly stated we can't assume, because we all know what happens when we assume! What we do know...R1 passed R2. So we all agree there is at least one out. PHEWWW.... Now, did the SS allow the ball to drop, or did he not. Hmmmmm legal either way. If he let it drop he was hoping for a quick double play, risky off the bounce, but again legal. Or was it IFF and BR was out? I don't know because it could have been, or not been because a roadmap wasn't perfectly, clearly, without question, taking out all potiential what if's. Oh I got it...it's and NFHS test question! Could be anything. So was or was not the wind blowing? If so, how fast? and in what direction?? Gotta know, it COULD affect the ball, as well as my call of IFF or not. I now see the sun is part of the equation. HMMM OK now I need to know which direction the field is laid out... another darn factor to weigh in. So now I have to deal with R2 errr R1 errrr the guy who was on second who got hit by the ball. IF it's IFF, it's OK, if it isn't IFF he's out, now I'm a getting confused....which leaves me with the BR...if it's IFF he's out, but again, I don't know which to call because the angle of the sun, wind direction, field layout, how high the ball was, what position SS was at or was it a push bunt, oh no, what axis is the earth at for this play?? Gotta add that into the equation. Ahhh forget it....lets make it simple....I got three outs either damn way....I'm heading off the field, shaking my head...oh wait....I forgot what age, league, ability of SS, is it a 60 or 90 foot bases.....geezzzzzzz Ok.. pitch.... were doing it over, to many unanswered questions here.

Or coaching.

My thoughts
 

Hook up with a local Little League. Most of them will train you and give you games to work at a level you're comfortable with. You will soon learn whether you enjoy the work or not. If you do, you can stay with the little league and advance in the level of games you work... albeit volunteer, or find a local association and begin working and getting paid.

If you go the latter route you will be expected learn a lot more about rules, mechanics and game management, but if you enjoy umpiring it will be something you'll want to do anyway.

If you don't enjoy it, it's not worth doing. I've worked with guys who only do it for the money and it's not a positive experience for me.

She also says I'm dense at times too.

How does this work?

For this play, R2 (runner from 1st) would be out for passing R1 (runner from 2nd), ball still in play. R1 is safe at 2nd when the ball hits him since he is on a legally acquired bag. Two outs and an ice pack for R1. Do I have it now?

In the play at hand, I'm sure whoever posted it meant for the runner who started at second to be off the bag when he was hit by the ball. He's out. Triple play with no one from the defense touching the ball after it was hit.

Under which condition is R2 (runners starting at second in the normal world are designated R2) safe when the ball hits him on the bag?

Serious question (and there is a right and wrong answer).

BTW, to the poster above who said an IFF is an IFF whether declared or not, well, that depends. Yes, I agree, in a FED game. Only if an unwarranted double or triple play is obtained in an NCAA/OBR game.

Again, this is true for a FED game and *might* be true in an NCAA/OBR game, but only if the defense gets ands unwarranted double or triple play.

This is covered well in the 2006 BRD, which appears to be the most current one since Carl won't tell anyone if there's a 2007 edition coming out.

Infield Fly Rule.

I was asking the other guy, Bob. :)

It seemed from his post that being on a "legally acquired base" was reason enough for him, but I was curious if he was just assuming that the play was an IFF.

When I wrote my post I thought I left enough room between the lines for everyone to catch my drift. Apparently I didn't dumb it down enough for the lowest common denominators among us.

Hopefully this will help.

I'm sure DG assumed that we would all assume it was an IFF,

Between the lines interp: I know DG was going for IFF in this sitch and I recognize it as such. But just for fun, since not every pop up in the IF is an IFF, lets see what the ruling would be in the event you, the umpire, judged this for whatever reason, as needing more than ordinary effort to make the play.
Also, since DGs original posting of this sitch was directed tongue in cheek at the new umps on the forum, it might be good to clarify that not every pop up in the infield has to be an IFF.


however, as a contrarian I chose not to make that assumption.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Rcichon
IFF, BR out.
Runner on 1st out for passing Runner on 2nd.
That makes the 3rd out.


Did I blow it?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
No, but I blew the example, try it with none out.

ok since IFF HTBT, here goes ---

R1 out for passing R2: Out #1
INT on R2: Out #2
BR safe at 1

Re-reading the problem yet again, you're right. There is no specific mention of the runner at 2nd being on the bag when he was hit by the ball.

It's sad but I had to look this up, according to OBR 7.08 (f) a runner in that situation would be safe if the IFF rule was in effect.

I was thinking the former and that is because I accidently applied 7.08(b) and the comment to a batted ball hitting a runner - which obviously is not appropriate. ;)

From MLB.com

Rich and Bob, thanks for your patience on this sitch. I haven't called ball in about four years and I'm just starting to get back into reading the rules again. This has a been a great thread for me, even if it was a bit painful for you guys and I appreciate you typing very slowly and using small words for me. :D