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-   -   How to Get Yourself in Trouble (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/31600-how-get-yourself-trouble.html)

MadCityRef Wed Feb 07, 2007 08:13pm

How to Get Yourself in Trouble
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFQM...elated&search=

This YouTube can be fun.

SanDiegoSteve Wed Feb 07, 2007 08:43pm

Another fine arbiter from AMLU! Better learn to get his stories straight.

GarthB Wed Feb 07, 2007 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Another fine arbiter from AMLU! Better learn to get his stories straight.

This young man, a Wendelstedt grad, is no longer with AMLU or MiLB. The problem was not with his "story." He told it straight. He made an out call call on a runner who was safe. He admitted that from the get-go.

The problem was that he thought it was okay to do that because the runner pi$$ed him off. He was informed very quickly that he was incorrect.

PeteBooth Thu Feb 08, 2007 01:26pm

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
This young man, a Wendelstedt grad, is no longer with AMLU or MiLB. The problem was not with his "story." He told it straight. He made an out call call on a runner who was safe. He admitted that from the get-go.

The problem was that he thought it was okay to do that because the runner pi$$ed him off. He was informed very quickly that he was incorrect.


Hi Garth:

Assuming this was a game that counted, why didn't the coach simply protest the call? By the umpire saying what he did, he just turned a routine judgement call into a rules violation. He admitted to the coach that his runner was safe but called him out "on principal" and while I am all for a rule that says an umpire at his/her discretion can call a runner out "on prinicipal" there presently is none.


Also, suppose this: You are the PU and for sake of argument the crew chief as well. The coach now wants to come to you for a ruling:

Coach says to you: Hey Blue Your partner Joe called my runner out at first base "on principal" He told me himself he was safe but called him out anyway.

We all know that we are not supposed to over-turn our partners calls etc, but now you have a situation where your partner by saying what he did mis-applied a rule. If he wanted to "send a message" he should have simply kept his mouth shut.

What do you do?

Pete Booth

bluezebra Thu Feb 08, 2007 01:30pm

What do you do?

For one thing, I'd spell PRINCIPLE correctly.

Bob

SanDiegoSteve Thu Feb 08, 2007 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluezebra
What do you do?

For one thing, I'd spell PRINCIPLE correctly.

Bob

Yup, that's what my school principle used to say all the time!:D :rolleyes:

lawump Thu Feb 08, 2007 02:45pm

referenced
 
I referenced this exact incident in the "I'm done" thread...

We all shouldn't be shocked that this umpire intentionally called a safe runner "out". While not all umpires do this...all umpires do KNOW umpires who will use a "call" as a means (of attempting to) control an unruly player. How many of us have heard war stories of umpires telling a catcher to set-up well of the plate after the batter has whined about some calls...and then called a "strike" when the pitch hits the catcher's mitt?

What we should be shocked about is that he admitted it...to a coach. Again, he lacks common sense.

This is not an AMLU exclusive issue. Using this to attack the AMLU is stupid (unless you're trying to say that all AMLU umpires are this stupid, and only an AMLU umpire would admit it to a coach...which is still stupid). I've heard these war stories from NCAA, NFHS umpires just as often.

As an aside I can look everyone and anyone in the eye and say I've never done this. I don't play these silly games...I just dump the relevant rat. My rationale is: why lower myself to his standards? I wasn't known as "Mr. Red A$$" at umpire school for nothing.

I'll get off my pedestal now.

umpduck11 Thu Feb 08, 2007 06:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Yup, that's what my school principle used to say all the time!:D :rolleyes:


"We got no principals" ...... Alice Cooper

GarthB Thu Feb 08, 2007 08:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Hi Garth:

Assuming this was a game that counted, why didn't the coach simply protest the call? By the umpire saying what he did, he just turned a routine judgement call into a rules violation. He admitted to the coach that his runner was safe but called him out "on principal" and while I am all for a rule that says an umpire at his/her discretion can call a runner out "on prinicipal" there presently is none.


Also, suppose this: You are the PU and for sake of argument the crew chief as well. The coach now wants to come to you for a ruling:

Coach says to you: Hey Blue Your partner Joe called my runner out at first base "on principal" He told me himself he was safe but called him out anyway.

We all know that we are not supposed to over-turn our partners calls etc, but now you have a situation where your partner by saying what he did mis-applied a rule. If he wanted to "send a message" he should have simply kept his mouth shut.

What do you do?

Pete Booth

1. First question assumes that we know what the coach/manager did. I don't know what he did. Maybe he did protest.

2. It is still a judgment call. It's a safe/out situation.

First, in all honesty, if a coach/manager comes to me with that story I wouldn't believe him. My initial response is that it's a judgment call and I don't get involved in my partner's judgment call.

Now the coach says he going to protest. I inform him that it's a judgment call and those are not protestable. He continues to protest and won't leave the field. As I was taught at the Desert Classic, when it becomes apparent the coach won't leave the field, at that I point I accept the protest.

I first go to my partner, in private, to find out the call. Then I ask him if he did what the coach claims. If says "yes", I ask him what the [email protected] he was thinking and suggest that unless he thinks his job is worth it, he should change his call.

If my partner denies it, I'm going to accept the protest and write down what the the coach said and what my partner said. I'm then going to write down the situation: outs, runners, the play , etc.

I then go to the opposing manager and inform him of the protest and the reasons for it. I then notify the PA announcer and official scorer of the protest and then I get the game back underway.

After the game I notify the proper authorites and forward my lineup with all my notes.

GarthB Thu Feb 08, 2007 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawump
I referenced this exact incident in the "I'm done" thread...

This is not an AMLU exclusive issue. Using this to attack the AMLU is stupid (unless you're trying to say that all AMLU umpires are this stupid, and only an AMLU umpire would admit it to a coach...which is still stupid). I've heard these war stories from NCAA, NFHS umpires just as often.

Agreed. This was an invididual issue not a group issue. I know members of the AMLU who were simply stunned by this incident.

I also know of several D-1 umpires who have made FYC calls.

tribefan1952 Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:07am

Umps playing God
 
I had a similar thing happen to one of my players a few years ago when I was coaching. It was late in the game and we had a pretty good lead, but this team was very capable of blowing big leads. The ump called my player out on a third strike that wasn't even close. It was the third out and I met the batter as he walked to the dugout with a stunned look on his face. I told him to try to forget about it. I didn't say anything to the ump. Then the ump came up to me and quietly said not to count that strikeout in the kid's stats. I asked him why. He said that he thought the game was getting out of hand and wanted to end the inning. I couldn't believe it. I never complained to anyone because we ended up winning the game, but I was amazed that he sincerely felt that he had done something noble.

DG Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:23am

Is an umpire who makes an FYC call and admits it to a manager an idiot, or is this just my imagination?

GarthB Tue Feb 13, 2007 01:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG
Is an umpire who makes an FYC call and admits it to a manager an idiot, or is this just my imagination?

An FYC does not have the desired effect unless the manager knows it was an FYC.

There's just better ways to get the point across than that which this former umpire used.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 13, 2007 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG
Is an umpire who makes an FYC call and admits it to a manager an idiot, or is this just my imagination?

I wouldn't call this an FYC. That doesn't invalidate your conclusion about the umpire, though.

greymule Tue Feb 13, 2007 08:51am

Yer out.

I don't have to show you any steenkin' principles.


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