thoughts on these types of umpires.
 

I noticed this a few times in my district, and it p*sses me off.

During all stars, the 4 umpires are assigned to a game, and then they are allowed to decide where they will work. Well, a few rotten apples out there act like babies and only will work a certain position, or else they will turn around and head home. Got anyone like that? Makes me mad. :mad:

I used to. Until I stopped scheduling him. Let guys like this walk.

When I was given the honor of working 4-man at the National Area Code Showcase games at Qualcomm Stadium in 2000, I was assigned to work games on back-to-back days. The first day, I wasn't allowed to work the plate because an umpire senior to me insisted on the plate. I then chose 1st base. The next day, with an entirely different crew, again a senior umpire chose the plate. Again, I chose 1st base. I wanted as much action as I could get. But I would have worked any position. I think seniority should have something to do with who works what.

I think not Steve, no matter how many years youve worked it doesnt entitle you to demand you work a certain postition. take your turn like everyone else. Sure we may not be "professional umpires" but it makes no difference. Sure, its more fun to work HP and 1st, but some people need to learn to work the other pos. like everyone else. I dont care weather its your first year or your 30th, it doesnt entitle you to boss the other umpires around and insist working a pos. or decide to not umpire. I think my UIC should start assigning who works what.

Spoken like a true rookie. Yes, if a crew is working a series, they should rotate positions. But those positions are assigned based on seniority, even in the majors. If a 4 man crew is working one game, then it makes complete sense that the positions get picked via seniority.

Pay your dues, kid. You can't take the 6 items or less express lane to being a veteran umpire.

I agree completely, and were I the UIC, I'd put you where you could do the least damage.

Dave, you didnt understand me right.

What i mean was, umpires who game after game insist upon to work the same position over and over again, not allowing any body else learn anything. Sure, as a starting point for the first game seniority makes sense. Then change positions there after. But when vertern umpires start saying "im working this position or else im not umpiring" isnt right. As far as im conserned, stay home. I dont wanna work with you if u have that kind of attitude. Seniority does not give the UMPIRE himself the right to pick and choose all the time. Put your pants on one leg at a time, like everyone else does. If i were in charge, i'd rather have a smaller number of GOOD umpiring, then a larger number working the tournaments that wanna wine and moan. end of rant. All umpires should get experience doing all the positions.

You are either 1) Lance's son he never knew he had in Pennsylvania or 2) do not have not the first clue about umpiring.

Using seniority is the easy way for the assignor to place umpires. That way he doesn't make judgement calls on who actually is the best umpire for each position. Letting the umpires choose, based on seniority, is the second easiest way to do things.

Please don't equate easy with fair, correct, best or any other proper term. It's just the easiet.

I've come across only one fellow that would only do plates. I think it was more of a mobility issue (he didn't like to move), than a pomposity one. Perhaps a touch of both.

I am not only thrilled that I have never been a member of a Gestapo-like group which imparts the assignor's will as to who works which position, but I would never goosestep to that marching music.

Letting the umpires choose, based on seniority, and then alternating in each successive pairing with the same partner is the very first choice for ease in assigning.

My HS assignment secretary has way too many games to assign to have to sit around figuring which umpire should work the plate, and which one should work the bases.

It is the all-star tournament Dan is referring to......when it comes to post season, the veteran umpire is usually the crew chief and he assigns the rotation (or picks where he wants to work). You have been doing this for one year, relax a little, be honored you were selected for the post season, shut your mouth and listen. That is the best way to learn, earn respect from your peers and maybe sometime (it will take years) you will be the senior guy on the crew and you can pick where you want to work..

So your association uses tournaments as a learning experience for umpires ? :eek:

I was posting about post season assignments, like the op was talking about, not regular season games. Post season stuff is usually handled differently.

I wouldnt necessarily say that the "veteran umpire" is the crew chief and he picks, who ever is HP is the crew chief is how its done. Its up to the umpires them selves (agreed upon before the game). Nobody at the feild puts us wear we work. Hope that mnakes it clearer. One of the guys usually asks who wants to do what. Kinda what happened when i stumbed into doing the plate in a district champ. 10-11 softball. Veteran umpire asked who wants to do what, He didnt have it gear, and the other guy got done from working HP that afternoon, so i was the only left to work. Vet. ump took first base. The other guy hadnt shown up to the feild until about 10 minutes before game time, so he was left with taking 3rd :D

Why get mad?
 

Okay, so let's assume this guy is a jerk, he is working the plate and you are not working the plate. This guy is happy because he is doing what he wanted. You're mad because you're not doing what you wanted. Now imagine if you switch places with the jerk. You're gonna get mad again because the unhappy jerk went home. Now look on the bright side; you make the same amount of money.

How would you like it if you were stuck with someone who demands he do a certain position EVERY game?

Although on the other hand, we all do get the same amout of $ :p

Yep, that makes it A LOT clearer for me. You can continue to live in your world, and I will stay in mine.

In my association, the crew decides what position we will work. None of us mind where we work but if we work multiple games together (like a series), we rotate like the MLB guys with each game.

In my neck of the woods, the senior man chooses which position he works.
When younger guys work with me, they know ahead of time that I will normally work the plate in a single game. In a double-header, I will take the
first, unless its a JV/V. In that case, I take the Varsity game, if I'm senior.
When we do three-man playoffs, a crew chief is assigned by our board , and he decides
which umpire works where. If we have two games, we rotate normally from that point.

I beg to differ, in our world the senior umpire is the crew chief no matter what position he is working. And if you show up without your gear, we will work with 3 umpires instead of 4. Finally, if you show up 10 minutes before one or our games (especially if we are working 3, 4 or 6 man crew) we are on the field already at the plate. If it was to be a 6 man crew, you will be facing a pi$$ed off line ump in the parking lot wanting your a$$!

Doesn't C.C. "always" have the plate ? :D

The one was an older guy, called up at the last minute and didnt have it gear. (he was there in about an hour before the game like us) None of us 3 were happy that the other guy showed up that late, he showed up just as we were ready to go in the field , but the same guy also shows up late to our umpire meetings. And get this..hes a college professor! Thats other reason why i worked HP, i hadnt done a 3 man this season, so it would be easier to do it that way anyhow, since i only have to help out with 3rd.

As a younger umpire working in a crew, your job, is to show up, shut up and learn. You should simply say yes sir, no sir, how should I do this sir. Learn the ropes. In many instances the vet will not let you work the plate because you are simply not ready, or often the teams are not ready for you. In many leagues the teams need to see the faces a few, to a number of times before they will respect the ump. Keeping you out of harms way and letting you gain respect is a positive for you. Learn your role. You obviously don't know it, because you think you have opinions that matter and you have not worked enough to have opinions. Why Do I know because I have been on this board for 4 yrs and this year began to have opinions, and then only a few here and there. LEARN FIRST then PRACTICE. Become a sponge. and work whatever. I expect to work any position when I show up. I expect if I'm the senior guy to dictate what I will work, or what my partner will work in some instances, however on the flip side I know if I'm the lower seniority, I will Rub the baseballs, and ask "What do you want me to work today?"

Oh and P.S. Crew Chief no matter what is the most senior or Best umpire out there, you will know based on the organization which one is the case. Field position has nothing to do with it.

Look at the bright side.
 

In fact, every year one problem or another would come up and disappear over time. My first year, I was stuck in t-ball and the 8-10 year division. The vets made it clear that the 11-12 year division was their show. I could work upper divisions when one of them had business that kept them from working the game that day. My second year was worse. I was stuck on the the softball diamond. I worked the plate both games because my young partner didn't have any gear or I took the first game and a vet would work the second (better pitching). Then I thought about our experiences and realized that every UMPIRE out there has had similar revelations. Now you can choose to get mad or choose to learn how to handle it more appropriately. Good luck.

Umpires in Tee Ball? You are kidding, right?

I don't think that's true. But, I do agree that putting the rookie on the plate is the best thing to do in three-man.

u do? Well atleast someone out there thinks so too.

We always stick the rook in the bucket. Less things to screw up.

Trust me
 

LilLeague Dan has a learning disability.

He is not an umpire

1) 10-11 year old Softball?

2) "Veteran" umpire doesnt have gear?

Understood SDS, but at some point the rooks need to learn.

Probably the best time is a meaningless reg season game or a post season game that TD will realize will be about 30-0.

Let me say one more thing as well.

For big games, I'm stuck in the bucket.

For moderate games, I get about 1/2 the time at 1st and 1/2 the plate with a veteran at first. Normally happens with the DH.

Its good to stick rooks in the bucket as you say until they are ready to move up to the next step. They need big game experience before they get important big game experience, if that makes any sense.

What does the weather have to do with whether you're a rookie or a seasoned veteran?

Bob

Psst. Psst. Psst.
 

I am not sure if you do, but someone thinks the rookie is homophonic.:D :D :D

Well, a rookie is knot nearly as qualified to due the job as is a veteran. No matter witch weigh you look at it theirs no way to compare the too.


Tim.

You is hooked on foniks.:D

Reminds me of the little "drummer" boy.

Get A Clue.
PU is the UIC -- FOR THAT GAME.
The Crew Chief may, or may not be the UIC.
Where I'm from [and probably everyone else here, too] the guy who is most senior [rating or longevity] is the crew chief.
Guess what: in your example, the "vet" WAS the crew chief: showed up w/o gear [ 'cause he'd decided before leaving home one of the other guys was taking the dish]; moderated the discussion of "who wants what"; TOOK 1st base.

Much of it is EGO. I put together crews for exhibition games for three Silver Bullets (the women's team) games, and the Korean National team that was touring before the 1996 Olympics. I took the "rocking chair" (3B) for all four games. Couldn't care less about working the plate. And I had the most experience on each of the crews.

Bob

I do exactly that.

amen.......

I assign a 44-team league. During the regular season, I don't specify plate/bases. As if by magic, one umpire works the plate and another works the bases.

During the playoffs, I assign every position. Our playoffs are one and out and it's an adult league. I know which umpires I can put on the plate and I also want to spread the wealth. This last season we had 8 games in the championship portion of our season and I assigned 8 different plate umpires. I was not one of them.

I agree with most of what has been posted here on this subject. We try to spread the wealth as much as possible come playoff time. Generally, in the preliminary rounds just the plate is assigned, and the crews (3 or 4 man) decide between them who has which base. Once we get to the final rounds, all positions are decided before the game, there are no negotiations. When I did the assigning, I tried to rotate plate jobs between everyone who was selected for the playoffs.

When you say no negotiations, does that mean no changes? What if the changes need to be made? For example: I worked a large tournament this summer where the positions were assigned all the way through prior to the start of the tournament. I worked the plate for one team's first three games and, if they kept winning (which they did), I would have had their next two games, one of which which would have been the final. We changed the rotation for the last two games.

Changes are made based on issues like you mentioned, agreed. I meant there were no 'negotiations' between the crew at the game site to try to determine who does what.