Ball Four
 

Do you verbally announce "ball four", or do you simply say "ball" on ball four. I've been taught that by making the verbal announcement that it's ball four we can help to eliminate unnecessary confusion. I know that the game's participants and our partners should know the count at all times, but we all know that isn't always the case.


Tim.

i only say "Ball" on balls 1-3, I say "Ball 4" for ball 4 just to eliminate confusion by the batter who perhaps didn't know what the count was.

I say "ball 4". and same thing with strike 3 looking. other wise on 1,2,3 i say "ball".

"Ball FOUR."

#56, jpc and LLdan both say ball 4.

Tim C doesn't.

If this was a poll, it would be tied.:D

i say 'ball four', but as with other calls of 'ball', its really only loud enough for the catcher and batter to hear.

Baseball Canada wants Ball and # on each call, and Strike and # on each call. So that is what I attempt to do. Been working for 2 yrs on Ball and #, , I'm close to verbalising the vast majority now. for some reason this has been one of the trickiest habits for me to re-train.

The more I hear about Baseball Canada, the more I'm glad my ancestors stayed on this side of the border and fought the British.

"Ball four"
Sam

Ball!

It's not my job to tell you it's ball 4.

You tell everyone it's strike THREE, don't you?

Question based on OP.
If "ball four" is verbalized, do those same umps verbalize "strike three" when it applies?
Sam

I like "strike 3" :D

I hate "ball 4" :eek:

I like strikes and outs!

I guess it's not really our job to make sure everyone knows it's ball four, but it can sure help to avoid a $h1t storm if there are runners forced by the award.


Tim.

Do you mean you don't yell "BALL FOUR. TAKE YOUR BASE!" and then point to first? How's a batter to know he's just been "walked"?:D

I know a guy that will do that when a batters been hit by pitch "Time, I got a dead ball (points to first) batter take your base" :D

You are joking, aren't you Garth?

Do I need to add more smilies?

Sorry, the smiles were not appearing on any posts.

I am sure you have a "friend" who does that.

I call "Ball" only. If the batter looks at me with that confused look I'll tell him that's 4.

The last time I had a batter who stayed at the plate after I called the fourth "Ball", the catcher told him..."Hey, pal, we're only giving four to a batter today...get your a$$ to first, slug."

I loved it. And I've stolen it. If I get another batter who can't count to four I'll use it, minus the "get your a$$ to first, slug."

I'll say just "Ball" loud and clear and if the batter doesn't move, i'll go "that's 4" to the batter in a conversational voice.

There's your answer folks. Based on this post alone, we should all know whether to say "four" or not. ;)

No.

You do? That actually surprises me quite a bit.

I have been umpiring for 15 years and never said "ball four", but after reading these posts I will change this upcoming season and say "ball four." It just make sense to avoid any confusion on the play. I still will not point towards first like I see some umps do.

I also say strike three, I don't say strike one or strike two.

You've been a good umpire for 15 years. Don't pick up bad habits just because the LL trolls here tell you to. The only actual umpire who has told you do say "Ball four" here is Rich - the rest ... not so much. (And as I mentioned, it shocked me the Rich said he does this). Note the guys who have said not to do this - surely they carry a BIT more weight than the guys (other than Rich) saying to say Ball Four, don't ya think?

I think it is a good tool to use. We have to remember sometimes the batter may forget the count and I don't see using this as a problem. If you want to use it go ahead, if you don't, don't!!!

Most people's signals (some might say antics) differ significantly on strike three from strikes 1 and 2, especially on a called strike 3. But there is no reason for us to say strike three. And if you don't buy it coming from me or the other guys here that agree ... please watch MLB, MiLB, or NCAA guys - they don't do it either.

Boys, we've lost another one to the dark side. Now you see why it's a bad thing to put LLD and the like on ignore?

Why is this such an issue with you? We all have our little quirks in the way we officiate. Somethings may work for you and others may work for me, as long as we get the call right and manage the game properly there shouldn't be a problem.

I shouldn't let myself get baited ... but here goes.

Here's why this is an issue.

Someone posts a question. 6 people known for jumping on here giving umpires crappy or just flat wrong advice (and one who is respected) lept quickly to one opinion. 3 people (ignoring myself here) who are not only well respected, but among the few who come to this board and are almost always spot on with regard to every situation imaginable, all stating the opposite (correct) opinion.

Yet because the trolls are louder than the good umpires, and most of the good umpires have put these trolls on ignore long long ago - so they don't realize that several people are giving horrid advice on this issue, someone (this would be you) who has been doing something right for 15 years now decides to do it wrong.

And that pisses me off. Sorry - it does.

As to the actual issue here - again, if you don't believe me (or Tee, or Oz, or Garth), find someone who you will believe who actually works at a high level somewhere, and ask them. Or watch any of the highest levels of baseball and see what they do. Go sit row one some day and specifically listen to the PU.

Counting out the pitches (whether Strikes 1/2 or strike 3; whether balls 1-3 or ball 4) is BUSH. You want to step down to LLD's level - go right ahead. And we have one more quality umpire using bush mechanics.

What do you have against Baseball Canada?

Goodwillref - that should be enough to convince you right there.

What bit you, Mike? Someone doesn't agree with you and they're now a LL troll? Why don't you explain to me why you feel it's a bad habit to verbalize ball four. If there's a good reason not to, I'm all ears.


Tim.

i second about that statement. Why is it "wrong" to say "ball 4"? We all say "strike 3" dont we? If you really think about it, it sounds kinda dumb not to say a number after s3 and b4.

I watch a lot of MLB baseball. I mean a lot. I have heard many MLB umpires say "Ball 4." I have also heard quite a few MLB umpires announce the number after every "Ball" call, 1 through 4. I have heard them not announce any number, too. Same exact thing with strikes. Some say their strike call followed by "3," and others do not.

Every umpire does it differently. To say that it is wrong to say "Ball 4" is just stupid, as there is nothing wrong with doing it either way one chooses.

I Don't think I deserve to be catagorized with the trolls, mcrowder.

And on this particular subject, I'm unable to have an opinion because of the group I umpire for sets out the standards. I specifically mentioned that as an addition to the thread. I state that I didn't call #'s in the past till I was told to. I don't think calling them number or not matters a smidge to the game and how we officiate it, If given the chance to choose, I vote don't give #, only adds a new way for you to mess up.

I dunno, Mike. Evans taught me to call the number on EVERY pitch: ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, ball 4; strike 1, strike 2, strike 3.

That's not what I do: I announce strike 3 routinely (swinging or called - punch out only on called strike). I also announce ball 4.

This is, by far, the stupidest arguement on the internet, whether it be about baseball, politics, chicks, whatever.

I do not count any pitches, balls or strikes. I give the count after three pitches, and at 3 & 2. For any other information, you need to ask.

D

I have told the batter that he'll need another quarter if he wants more pitches.

I say "Ball Four" (but not 1 or 2 or 3). Why? Because that's how I was taught (by D-1 officials at one of my first camps) and it's a habit.

I think the whole thread is much ado about nothing.

The thread is much more than much ado about nothing - it's close to hilarious.

I say "Ball 4" about 60% of the time. Other responses are "Ball," "Nope," "4."

I say "strike 3" or "THREE!" on calles strike 3, just prior to performing my world-class punchout mechanic.

This is completely a matter of personal preference. Doing it one way or the other does NOT paint one as a rookie or a veteran, a "trusted source" or a troll, hiliarious claims in this thread notwithstanding.

When I gave up using my indicator, I no longer ANNOUNCED the game for da boys because I could no longer stare at the dam thing to see what came after 1, 2, or 3.

By the same token, I could probably count on one hand, (thats 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, so you don't have to look), the number of times a player (that shaves) had to be told, "its ball 4, take your base."

Save it for the instructional leagues !!!!

Potato potAHto. That's all this thread is.

Personally, I never say ball 4 or strike 3 (unless the 3 is a looking, or its in the dirt, I say Strike 3 for no catch purposes, but let's not start that thread here).

Me thinks you didn't hear the full explanation in the cages.

It's along the lines of "This is what we want you to do here...you won't do this when you leave."

It is all part of the Academy thing...having every student work exactly the same way so they can be judged against a standard and so individualized mechanics aren't taken in the mix.

Yes, but some umpires really took their training to heart, and still do it to this very day in professional baseball, and back home in their local associations. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing it in real life, as well as in school.

I think b!tc*ing about those who say or don't say Ball 4 is like looking for mucous hanging off someone's nose.

Methinks you didn't read my entire post (why are we talking like this?:p ).

I addressed a poster who seemed serious about never announcing "ball 4," back when this thread had a serious strand in it.

One reason I don't call pitches with "Academy mechanics" is just as you say.

They also don't allow "the point" for calling strikes, or even "the chainsaw" for called strike 3. I was certainly aware that this uniformity was for the sake of focusing on what's truly important and challenging about calling pitches: tracking the pitch all the way to the glove, making the call, and ONLY THEN signalling or verbalizing it.

But then, I'm a student of the finer points of pedagogy, and Evans is, as you know, an excellent teacher as well as trainer.

I am more conviced now than ever that I will verbalize ball four. Some people in the post read a litte/lot into situations. How does the verbalizing ball four make me a bottom of the food chain umpire...it doesn't!

It's better if you point at the pitcher and yell, "YOU LOST HIM!" before motioning the batter to 1B.

Don't forget to yell "TIME!!" first!

No, no, no. "DEAD BALL!!!" :D

Well, as you'll see this coming season, I also announce "BALL 4." It's why I am also at the bottom of the food chain :)

I say BALL only.