The Official Tim McCarver Intelligence Thread
 

Yeah, yeah, so the thread's title is an oxymoron, and yes, I am sure I am being a broken record, but I'm beginning to have fun trying to figure out just WHICH Tim McCarver statement is the stupidest. So, during the course of the World Series, if anyone hears this doofus make a stupid/asinine/foolish/"duh!"/false comment or statement, please share it. I'm guessing this thread should end up being a few hundred pages long as a result. In fact, we might overload the forum's servers. :D

Some real examples:

Duh!

Uh, Tim, if Eckstein was attempting to bunt and the ball hit his hand, it's a dead ball strike.

I'm still trying to figure out just how a left-handed pitcher in contact with the rubber in the Set position can "hesitate" with his left leg, which is his pivot foot leg. Am I missing something? :confused:

Had I been watching the NCLS more consistently, I'm sure I'd have dozens--hundreds--more examples. Hopefully the masses here can pitch in during the course of the World Series.

What amazes me is that McCarver, more so than any other present day announcer IMHO, actually thinks he knows what he's talking about, that he's educating the viewers. He's such a condescending and pompous @ss.

Thanks. Great site.

I'm sure Timmy will come up with some new ones this Series. I can't wait to read them here. :D

He predicted game 7 of the Mets/Cards would be a battle of the bullpens, with 12 or more runs scored.

Last night
 

I was watching game 7 of the NLCS in bed last night...in about the 8th inning my wife woke up (she fell asleep in the 4th) and said the TV was bothering her...so I watched the rest of the game on "mute".

Needless to say, it was the most enjoyable two innings of baseball I've ever watched on FOX. I think I'll watch this entire World Series on "mute" (or maybe I'll have the TV on "mute", but turn the radio to ESPN radio.)

But doesn't that other "genius," Joe Morgan, broadcast on the radio?

Say it ain't so....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

From the site:

"If you leadoff and you play every day, you're guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times." - July 8th, 2006

Classic!

If somehow McCarver and Morgan were on the same broadcast, I think there'd be some kind of imbalance in the universe causing heads to spontaneously explode after Morgan said "...you know..." for the 100th time.

Either that or a spike in TV purchases the next day.

Kinda like matter meets anti-matter, eh? :eek: :eek:

I was reading and semi-watching the game, but I thought, when the Met player was hit in the face by the bouncing pitch, one of the announcers made a comment about it not being a hit-by-pitch because it hit the ground first.

McCarver: "Well, David Eckstein, like most of us, has 20 digits. Ten fingers. Ten toes."

What would we do without this guy?

Please tell me that was Tim McCarver! :p

1..I guess Tiny (brain-wise) Tim never met Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown.

2..Enjoy baseball broadcasts more.

Bob

FWIW, current MLB pitcher Antonio Alfonseca has 12 fingers and 12 toes. :)

And 2 thumbs?

Joe Buck just said that Scott Rollen was awarded home on Brandon Inge's
" interference". Tim McCarver just seconded the statement. :rolleyes:

Good grief. And he made it ten times worse when they replayed...and replayed....and replayed the thing. And each time. "Both umpires were on top of the INTERFERENCE."

This guy amazes me.

*And good job by the umps for indeed being on top of it. Easy call, but nonetheless, good job.

OH MY GOD THE GREAT McCARVER JUST CORRECTED HIMSELF!!

He even read the rule. Wonder who called him out on that one?

Now the rocket scientist decides to read a rulebook. Whada ya know. I guess I should be
happy that he went to the trouble of publicly correcting himself.

I came over here hoping somebody was talking about this. So if it's not interference, what was the call?

Ok. Now be nice to the new moron on the block (me!) and explain the difference?

Simply put, interference is a call against the offense for impeding a defensive
player in his attempt to field a ball or make a play.
Obstruction is a defensive player hampering an offensive player's attempt
to advance (or return) to a base.
This is a "boiled down" explanation.

Yeah, but it's good enough for me. Thanks!

Now, why was this considered obstruction when Inge was nowhere the base or basepath? Is it his responsibility to stay away from anywhere the runner wants to be?

Most people don't know the difference between interference and obstruction and have never really heard the term obstruction used as it relates to collisions in baseball. Then, use the term delayed dead ball (is that the case in OBR??; don't know) and that will really throw them off.

He did, but he was clearly joking. He said it should be like the manager; have to replace the pitcher on the second trip.

2 of his biggest classics from this year:

1. When he said "Eckstein has 10 fingers and toes"

2. Two starts ago for Reyes, he said "a fastball was Reyes fastest pitch"

I think I remember hearing/reading something about this too. Maybe it was on here.

Either way, Kudos to Randy Marsh and Mike Winters... they both had the call!

Game 2, top of the first: Inge "overdives" the ball. "Is that even a word? I guess it is now."

That sound you heard was the "Thump!" of Ump25 hitting the floor upon hearing Tim McCarver correct himself AND apologize.

This just in...blizzard warnings in Hell.

A few years ago MLB thought it would be a good idea to have umpire supervisors present for the latter part of the post-season. Sometimes their presence was known, other times it wasn't, possibly because nothing transpired that necessitated their introduction and involvement.

Perhaps in this obstruction correction by McCarver situation, Steve Palermo was off camera with a gun to Tim's head, telling him to correct himself or the trigger would be pulled. :D

Since the runner establishes his own basepath between bases (and is not necessarily the direct line between bases), it is the fielder's responsibility not to alter the runner's path in any way. I didn't see the play, but Inge must have caused the runner to slow down or change his course in some manner.

Steve,

If you go here you can view it: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/ps...=ws&type=video

It's under Oct. 21 and called "Cards score two on two errors." (Second column, 9 down)


Yes, he most certainly did. Good call.

At least it's not as bad as Lou Pinella's :

"that foul tip went all the way to the backstop!"

I had the plaesure of meeting and talking with Richie Garcia at a clinic I attended a couple of years ago.

The discussion was about his time sitting in the booth with some play-by-play man and McCarver. I don't remember the year or exact sitch, buy Mr Garcia talked about how he needed to be restrained from assulting McCarver during a TV break because the umpire appeared to have missed a close tag play at second base, and McCarver wouldn't let it go. He kept on and on and on for more than 1 inning. Apparently, the producer kept replaying it in slow motion each time McCarver brought it up.

It was the funniest story I've ever heard.

Yes, completely. (Unless he's fielding a ball.) Boiled down further - Interference is on the offense, Obstruction is on the defense.

If that's the case, I'm no longer a fan of Steve Palermo! :D ;)

Anyone else think it's a bit oxymoronic that something labelled the Tim McCarver Intelligence Thread ended up being long?

Ha Ha! Good point mcrowder! :D

Palermo
 

How about not talking about Steve Palermo shooting or threatening to shoot anybody? Even McCarver . . .

Strikes and outs!

i second that motion.

I believe it was game five in the NLCS. A Cardinal runner was thrown out by 10 feet trying to go from first to third on a single and I quote Tim "sometimes it's a good play to get thrown out at third." Incidently this was the second out of the inning. He is annoying.

I never played ball after I started shaving, but my understanding was that you don't want to make the first or third out at 3B. The second out is OK - if so, then McCarver was *gasp* right!

Wouldn't that be a double?;) Yes he is annoying.

No, it would be a single. Going to third on a double is pretty automatic. McCarver is right in this case, as it has something to do with playing strategy, and not rules interpretation.

With one out it is the recommended situation to try for 1st to 3rd on a slight gamble. If R1 gets thrown out at 3rd, it's not the end of the inning, plus the BR can usually take second on the throw, which leaves a runner in scoring position with 2 out. This is what McCarver was referring to by saying that sometimes it's a good play to get thrown out at 3rd.

That sounds like a rule 10 question. Do we have a resident Rule 10 expert
here ? :D

last night he said something about a guy wearing glasses must be a book reader. :confused:

It's never a good play to get thrown out at third. That's my point. It's a stupid remark. Typical "McCarverism." Let see what would you rather have 1st and 2nd one out or runner on 2nd two outs? You never want to get thrown out at 3rd. Being on 2nd you're already in scoring position and have more outs to work with and therefore a greater probability of having a big inning. I'm a fan of "money ball".

With all fairness to Tim McCarver (I can't believe I'm saying this), I have heard this phrase (never make the 1st or 3rd out at third base) many times growing up. I never understood why it was okay to make the 2nd out at third.

All I know is that when I played my "moments" in professional ball, we got our butts chewed - big time - if we got thrown out at 3rd no matter how many outs there were!

When I played Little League, I didn't want to get thrown out at any base.

Maybe I was intolerant.

SDS had it right: of course, you don't want to get thrown out at 3B (or any other), but with 1 out on a single to RF, R1 will usually try to get to 3B. It's a risk, but with 1 out the risk is worth it.

Why not with 0 or 2 outs? With 0 outs you run the risk of killing a big inning; and with 2 outs, there's no further chance to score.

The odds of scoring go up dramatically by having the runner at 3B as opposed to 2B, and this fact justifies the risk of trying to get R1 over to 3B.

McCarver was repeating a standard piece of strategy, not making things up.

Oh, lighten up. The bitter irony was intentional.

That was my hope and desire from the beginning, mc. ;)

You're asking a lawyer to lighten up? :D

What would you rather have. First and second and one out or a runner on second and two outs? If oyu're going from frst to third on a hit you better be 99% certain that you're going to make it. It's not a good play if you're thrown out at third. Saying it is is just plain silly.

You're right. It's not a good play if you're thrown out at third, but the percentages are in your favor with the ball in right field that you'll make it safely to third. If the defense does play on R1 at third, then the BR should be able to move up to second to remove the DP potential. There's a lot that has to go right for the defense to successfully throw out a runner at third from right field. Unless they have a player with an absolute cannon who can get it there on a hop, there has to be a good throw to the cutoff, a good turn on the cut, a good throw from the cut, and a good tag on R1.


Tim.

This is why the people who say this, and take the risk with one out, are managing in the big leagues, while you are posting on an internet umpire forum criticizing this time-honored philosophy.

McCarver doesn't have the scoop on Sean Casey (1B Detroit) who stretches his left hip-flexor, every time, just before he steps into the batter's box.

McCarver said it was because of his calf injury in the ALDS, but since he's been a Tiger (back in August ?) he's been loosening up those ol' bones and things.

Tiger fan.

Your Tigers had better start hitting....

:D
I'm thinking those Cardinal pitchers are pretty tough, but Pudge, Placido and Grandy are really struggling. Maybe the rain will wash thier bad stuff away.

I saw that Thursday's evening forecast has a 100% chance of steady rain, and Friday's forecast isn't much better. This thing may stretch to Halloween. :eek:

No, it's more ironic.

An oxymoron is the inclusion of what are ordinarily mutually exclusive words or terms in the same phrase.....jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, honest coach, etc.

The title of the thread could be considered as containing an oxymoron, but the fact it is such a long thread, isn't.

Tonight's McCarver "Duh!" gem:

(Emphasis added.)

I won't complain about that one. After all, they're broadcasting for a wide range of folks, including neophytes who don't know that a run would not score on a 2-out groundout.

OTOH, if you were expressing surprise that McCarver DID know this rule, then I concur.

I'd guess that those who are actually watching the Series know a run doesn't score on a two-out groundout, but I was more entertained by McCarver's "understanding" of it. ;)

In our clinic for new softball officials, we describe it this way:

If you pull your car in the driveway, and little Susie has left her tricycle in the middle of it, and has cuased to to either slow down, stop, or swerve to miss it, you have been obstructed...just substitute a base runner for the car, and a fielder for the tricycle.....

I had an errant throw on a R going into 3rd, with both the C and P going after it...the R continued on to HP...the P, realizing this, stopped her pursuit and ended up going down the baseline about 2 ft in front of the R...I banged them for OBS, even though the P ended up getting the throw from the C and tagging the runner - IMO, the P had slowed R up enough to keep her from getting HP safely...which I tried very patiently to explain to the coach before ejecting him......

and of course the idiot fans all think contact has to be made....


When McCarver was doing Phillies, Mets and Yankee broadcasts, he ALWAYS got OBS and INT mixed up....


and dont get me started on Morgan.....

Well, the Tigers started hitting!



..and stopped fielding.

Yeah, they've been a surprise all season, ... and they are still surprising. :)

In light of a relatively new poster here named jimpiano, who believes Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver are intelligent, I am resurrecting this thread.

I hate it when these closet coaches pollute this forum.