DO you follow the ball to the base???
 

Good Morning,
Well I just did my first Varisty Level Fall Ball game this weekend with 2 very close and good teams. I have done other JV games this year as well and some JR Legion 17 AND UNDER. My question is I found myself 2nd guessing some of my calls during and after the game the plate umpire said I did a good job but...... On steals and other base calls do you guys follow the ball all the way to the base and aquire the the runner or do you focus the base and aquire the runner and ball when they come into view. I know you should allways watch the ball because of the obiovous but.. I think that as the level of ball gets better things change a bit so I would like your thoughts as to how other HS VARSITY and higher umps get it done.
Thanks Mike

Mike:
 

We know through formal training that "the ball takes you to the play."

So, as example, on a steal of second base as a BU we watch F2 catch the ball as we "are opening the gate" and as the ball passes us by we bring our left foot around to become square to the second base bag. (Hopefully you have gained a couple of steps towards second base as the ball is traveling towards the ultimate goal).

As the fielder begins to receive the ball normally the runner then enters in your reference frame. As long as you do not get to close to the call (where it can blow up on you) the natural progression is to follow the ball, the fielder appears and then the runner.

I have NEVER tried to aquire the runner prior to the ball arrival.

We know through training it takes three things for a play:

A Ball
A Runner
A Fielder.

Hope this answers your question.

Regards,

I agree with T, but would add that I "pull my eyes ahead of the throw" once I see that the throw is on-line (i.e., it's not going to hit me). I then focus on the fielder and the fielder's glove.

It's similar to the action of the eyes on a force at first -- we don't watch the ball all the way into the glove -- we transition our eyes to first base to watch for the runner and listen for the ball.

Yes it sounds so clear. And this is basicly the way I have been doing it as Bob has stated but man those bang bang plays sometimes get me thinking did I get it right and I can't help but think that maybe I'm doing something a little wroung. Basicly I wait for a release of the ball ( on a steal) then turn and move a little to get set and I guess now thinking maybe I was just focusing on the area ( all 3 coming together ball, glove, hand or foot)and not the fielders glove which makes more sence I think.

• Decide Your Angle
• Get To Your Spot
• Set Your Feet
• Read a True Throw
• Hands On Knee Set
• Watch/Listen for "Click-Thump"
• Confirm Possession & Release (Eyes)
• Make Your Decision (Mentally)
• Signal Your Call (Physically/Verbally)

Pretty straight forward - any ??????? :eek:

Bob, Be careful with getting ahead of the ball. Especially if you have multiple runner. If you are expecting a throw to 1B, as an example, you could have a fielder, i.e. 2B, intercept the ball and attempt a play at 3B while you are watching 1B. Now you have someone looking for a call that is yours and you didn't see it. Let the ball take you all the way in, that way you won't get fooled.

sargee,
 

Bob is much more experienced than what your posts give him credit.

When we are "reading" the throw it takes for granted that you are following the ball with correct respect to the committment.

We have killed the idea of coverage of multiple bases in the last 30 days here and on other websites.

Regards,

What about a field? :D ;)

Sarge, be careful giving advice to your betters. And if you don't know who those are, assume they are your betters until proven otherwise. Stick around a while, it will be obvious who knows what they are talking about and which 3 guys don't.

Also - if you'd actually read Bob's post instead of picking out 3 words to jump on, you'd see that he was talking about moving his eyes forward AFTER knowing the ball was already on the way to the base he was watching and he wasn't in the way of the throw.

Mccrowder, sure didn't mean to get on your wild hair, but you know what happens when you assume. I surely didn't mean to degrade what might be bob's experience and if that that is the impression, I apologize. But you don't know me and please don't assume to do so. Don't let the "newbie" to this forum relate to MY experience on the field.

Mmmmm,
 

"But you don't know me and please don't assume to do so. Don't let the "newbie" to this forum relate to MY experience on the field."

Oh boy, here we go again.

Trust us sargee, we are far past the things that seem to be in your answers.

Regards,

Sargee, you are right. I was thinking only of a single runner and a steal when I made my statement.

Multiple runners and a cut-off near the base at which a play might be made is difficult to hanlde with just two (or even one) umpires. If you stay with the ball or watch the cut-off, you will have no time to react to the play if the ball goes through. If you go the (anticipated) play, you will be late if the ball is cut-off. Still, the cut-off allows more time to react, so I'd err on the side of being ready for the initial play.

Bob, I don't know you and certainly do not mean to belittle your's, or anyone else's experience on this, or any other forum. If I did, please accept my apologies.

It seems now that the only one's who rate any opinion on this forum are the one's that agree with other opinion's. Other than respond to your post, I am still not sure what got the hair's up on a couple of other's necks.

To McCrowder and TimC. I enjoy reading and, sometimes putting my 2cents in on these forums, so, If I am wrong in posting something, instead of being wisea**, why not just explain where and what I have posted as being incorrect. Maybe I, as well as other's, can learn from your vast experience and excellence in officiating.

Sargee7
 

I am guessing that I could pretty much draw a picture of you as an umpire.

Some of us here feel that posters "earn their stripes" . . . we have a tendency to recognize those that are trusted and those that blow smoke.

Few of us, if any, take seriously the first few posts of any newbie.

We have a tendency to believe in those posters that build a long history of posts that are considered "spot on." Bob is one of those types.

Your "dripping saracasm" in your last answer does little to make me want to join your team.

Of course you have the right to be any type poster you select . . . and others have the right to increase their number from 3 to 4.

Regards,

Focus On Post
 

Gentelman,
I realize that I didn't include all the facts as perhaps I should have. In reguards to my question I was referring to only one runner stealing not multipile options for the fielders. And you should also note that I did not ask what was the BEST OR CORRECT way to make these calls I asked how you do it so I would take all the info and filter it as I wanted to use it. So please lets not start splitting hairs here. If someone makes a post that you perhaps you don't agree with so what, state your thoughts and move on. BASEBALL BASEBALL BASEBALL thats all.

P:
 

I will post anything, at any time I select.

Regards,

Be careful!
 

That's fine and dandy;however, through the years it is a frustration with how much "bad" information is posted. Often times with no rebuttal and a young umpire might read that and think its a good answer.

Posting information is good; however, it helps to look at who is posting and their track record.

There is not a correct way; I would suggest that you practice both methods and see what works for you.

I found that I follow the ball to the glove and my eyes to the base on the plays at first. Works great and my calls have actually gotten more consistent. (not that they were bad to start with)

But I've seen very good BU who call it the other way also.

As Carl has noted, the biggest problem with young umpires is that they don't call enought outs at first on the close plays.

Take that for what its worth, but it goes a long way ...

Best of luck

Thanks
David

From this statement, it sound to me as though you're seeing the play fine, but questioning yourself after you make your call. If that is the case, perhaps you should consider your "timing" as the issue and not "how" you see the play. Take an extra couple of seconds to let your brain catch up with your eyes.
On very close plays on steals or attempted doubles and such, I find myself actually thinking things like, "Oh man, the ball beat the runner to the bag, but you've gotta put the tag on the runner in time. I'm gonna here moaning and groaning on this." And then I sell, "SAFE!"

Often times, its natural for an up-and-coming umpire to question himself in his first couple of higher level games. That's nothing new, and I think we've all been there. But if it continues after 5-6 games, you need to look at your mechanics/skills. Hang in there and give yourself time to adjust to the higher level. JMO

I'll let your posts stand for you - this is where I base my assumptions about you. You want to change that opinion? Feel free... I wait with baited breath.

Did you re-read the post you were replying to yet? Bob was most assuredly not saying we should look toward a base that we think the ball it going to before it's actually going there.

4000+ posts. 9 posts.

I think I'm safe in my assumptions so far...

OK, assuming this to be a correct statement, I'll answer you.

Don't you think it was a TAD offensive for some guy with 6 (at the time) posts to come down condescendingly on a guy with thousands of posts? Granted, it's entirely possible that someone could post here thousands of times and still be an idiot ... but I think it's good advice to pay at least a LITTLE attention to someone's prior posts before assuming the guy is an idiot.

So what "got the hairs up" was you misreading a respected forum member's post, and condescendingly telling him to be careful. Sort of like giving Tiger Woods advice to be careful on his backswing.

You must be new to the internet. This is not going to happen no matter how much you want it to be that way.

Peace

M - I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but: please stop eating the bait. ;)

Now you're starting to sound like "Charlie" - a person who judges ability/knowlege based on how many years he's been umpiring. "Internet Umpires" are no different. Just because you post a thousand times, doesn't mean you can work - like "Charlie", who has been umpiring 20 yrs, doesn't mean he has a clue either.

When I'm on the field, it doesn't take more than an inning or so before I can tell if a person has "skills". Likewise on the internet, it doesn't take more than a couple of posts before you can tell if they have a clue. Bottom line, don't judge ability/knowledge by a (number), rather form your conclusions based on content and observations. Just my opinion

Sal: I think mcrowder qualifed his comment well enough with the part you left out: "Granted, it's entirely possible that someone could post here thousands of times and still be an idiot"

However, I agree with you primary point and would add that Jim Evans' next post on the internet would be his first.

Sal ... didn't I say exactly that myself?

But for someone with 6 posts to ASSUME that someone with 4000 posts needs to be talked down to? Please.

Actually I'm not new at all. I just don't have many posts here. You are probably correct in your statement as in all the forum's. I have generally found these types of places a very good place to get additional information. As I would consider myself a student of the game. I don't come here to get an education from the ground up I come here to listen to other people's viewpoint's then I decide what is usefull or not. Having said that it is painfully clear that there are many so called experts sitting behind a keyboard ready to jump at the chance to show everyone how smart they are or how much they know my point was that I wasn't asking for the best or correct way as much as I wanted to know what works for you. Anyway I have heard some usefull comments which is all I really wanted. Thanks for your time.

If you are not new, then you should now that people will judge your comments based on superficial reasons. That was really the only point I was trying to make.

If you understand that people come here to show how smart they are, then you should not be surprised with the responses you received. I am not endorsing any position. I am just stating that this is how things are going to be done whether you or I like it. It is very easy to act like you know something wile sitting at a computer screen.

Peace