i cant wait
 

my UIC today wanted to talk to me. On Thursday, me and him are doing a game on the 90' feild. It's basically a fall league for kids moving to the 90' in April. LL of course. Never done the 90' before, however Im familar with the positioning of BU on a 2 man. Any suggestions/comments for me? My first time doing the 90', gettin in some practice for the spring/summer season that starts in April. Im happy its supposed to be sunny and about 70 here on Thurs. lol heatwave :D How many of you have worked this level? Any comments, etc. would be appriciated :)

Keep your eyes on the baseball except when glancing to see the runner touch the base, then get your eyes right back to the ball (on hits to the outfield). If it is a choice between the two, just watch the ball. It's more important to know the position of the ball. Let the ball lead you to your plays. Don't overcommit to a base, only to see the ball get thrown to a base behind you. Don't worry about how close you get to the play, just make sure you get the proper angle. Angle over distance every time. Relax and have fun. Don't be quick with your timing. See the whole play develop, and make sure that the fielder has the ball securely before the "out" call. Proper use of the eyes, ya know. Oh, did I say relax and have fun? Relax and have fun.

Make sure you guys have a good pregame. If it's your first 90' game, you might want to get there early so you have time to discuss what each of you will be doing (ie covering third, caught fly ball/watching the runner, etc.). As Steve said, always keep an eye on the ball. Let the ball take you where you need to be. Angle is so much more important than the distance, you just need to see the play clearly, replay it in your head, and react. Don't be too quick, but be confident in your call. Just relax. You've umpired before, so it's not like you're in brand new. Baseball is baseball. It will be rough at first, but as the game moves along you'll feel more comfortable every time you move out there.

Thanks, guys. Also im riding with the UIC to the game, so we'll have plenty of time to discuss this :D Im not new to umpiring obviously, just new to the 90'. i know where i need to be already after studying it in the book and watching games on the 90'. I cant wait. lol :) Hope to do a few more before it ends. He will be behind the plate, and im doing the bases.

Obviously?

*snicker*...

Garth, you just had to pick that out :D

I had the joy of my first 90' wood bat tournament last weekend. The teams ranged from very very good to well let's be generous and say not quite so good.

I'd have to say know where the ball is critical. Never assume where the play will be. Work on the angles a lot.

VERY good advice. No Big Gulps, Taco Bell, or Italian within 3 hours of game time.

Trust me.

Be sure to watch your timing !

Things happen really slooooooooow for first year kids on the 90' field.

A lot of really goofy things also happen after you think a play is over.

So take your time to make your calls !

You won't be sorry.

I can't wait to hear how the game went! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I wonder how honest Dan will be!

Be sure to go over who has the call at what base on an appeal play. There's nothing worse than a team appealing a runner leaving early, then having both umpires look at each other, waiting for the other one to make a call.

When in positions B and C: On a ground ball to the infield move forward into the "working area" directly behind the pitchers mound and from there turn and keep your chest to the ball. This keeps you out of the throwing lanes and gives you good angles to plays at 1B and 3B. Always let the throw take you to the play.


Mike

I just wanna know if he threw out any 'painted in the basement' bats ;)

Well, you'll get your answers tommrow night, after the game. :D

Must be PU's call on all bases ... Steve told poor Dan to just look at the ball, all the time. :)

What Steve told him to do was to look at the ball and glance at the runners as they touch. Isn't that what you do, Mike?



Tim.

No, really what I said was that he should watch the ball, glance at the runner touching bases, then back to the ball on base hits to the outfield. I didn't tell him to "just look at the ball all the time."

I also told him that it is far more important to know where the ball is than whether or not a runner touched a base. That is directly from the General Instructions To Umpires page of the OBR rule book.

Just trying to be funny. I suppose I failed. :)

(And if I'm taking Steve literally, I think I would say I don't focus SOLELY on the ball, but try to keep the ball at or near the center of my vision and see as much as possible. You will not see OBS if you're just looking at the ball without making the effort to keep runners inside your peripheral vision ... but that is NOT what I meant by my post. I was just diggin a bit - sorry if the joke fell flat).

Mike, I was just trying to get the kid through his first 90ft. game without getting himself crucified. I didn't mean it to be an actual clinic with great detail. It was raw and basic. I probably should have used different phrasing, but I didn't want to spend too much time on it.

Fair enough. No harm.

today
 

Went good. I had fun working this fall ball game. Prolly going to do more too :D Game was very boring however, the teams...well...sucked :rolleyes: But now i know how to work a 90' diamond. lol

I'm glad you left that little LOL at the end of your post, Dan. One game of Fall ball on the big diamond does not a big diamond umpire make. It'll take you quite some time, maybe a year or more to get a true understanding of how to work the big diamond effectively. Good luck in the learning process though, we'll be here to help you as you progress.


Tim.

Who is "Prolly?" Your next partner?

Don't some of your students use this new cyber shorthand, Garth? You know what I mean. Like omg ur so kewl Ill prolly see you tmorrow at Lnch.


Tim.

Nope. I have heard some uneducated people pronounce "probably" this way in the past, but I have not seen or heard it in the mainstream of educated people, regardless of age. If this is becoming widely used, it hasn't made it to my corner of the world yet.

It's "chat speak." I catch my sons doing it quite a lot while they're using instant messaging, and it irks me to no end. My feelings are if they're going to be using a keyboard to communicate then they need to learn to use it properly. Grammar, punctuation, shift key and all need to be included.


Tim.

At the very least, one needs to be aware of his audience and present himself accordingly. "Prolly", if it is a "word" utilized by semi-educated youth, should probably remain in that arena. When addressing educated adults, it would be wise to communicate appropriately.

God, it's hard to shut down the teacher mode at night.

One game and you know how to work the 90' diamond?

Well, Grasshopper, practice makes perfect (or rather an Umpire)! You did a game that, as you say was boring ans sucked. Let's see how you feel when you get two teams that really play the game!

Excuse me for my "chat talk" there. Well anyhow i now have a basic understanding of the 90' feild.

I think eryone will prolly scuze u 4 it, cept the English teach.

Your are probably correct, and that's a pity. Lowered expectations are as bad as ignorance of what is proper.

Teaching in the public school system, I take it personally when one demonstrates that the accusations of inadequate student skills may be accurate.

I fault the elementary schools. Local studies indicate students enter junior high with 4th grade reading, writing and spelling skills. It doesn't get much better after that. My personal opinon is that no one should be allowed to leave sixth grade without the appropriate skills.

At the high school level we have institued "writing across the curriculum" by which students are required to write essays in and about each class they take, including math and P.E. But even that cannot compete with the amount of time students are allowed to spend instant messaging, text messaging, and playing computer games at home.

I truly fear that today's high school students will see a much larger division between between the social classes due to the widening gap between AP students and the unfortunate "norm", particularly in communication skills.

Oh, it should be noted that I am not an English teacher, although last semester I taught a lit. class. I have "endorsements" in English, history, music and several CTE areas. Music was my major in college, English and history were fascinations in which I achieved "minors" and CTE is my current passion, my favorite subject area and a course area of additional and current study.


End of rant.

[QUOTE=GarthB]Your are probably correct, and that's a pity.
QUOTE]


I believe either You're or you are would have been appropriate here. :D

I think it is funny that you speak of ignorance but are ignorant of the fact that pointing someones errors out in front of many other people, and doing so in such a mannor as to be making fun of them is actually quite Rude. It is as socially unacceptable as improper spelling and grammer, if not more so.

End of rant.

I won't presume to speak for Garth, but as for myself, I was just giving our 15 year old newbie a little good natured ribbing. Consider it a hazing, if you will. I have a feeling that Dan wasn't offended by it.


Tim.

I plan to do more games out there. One comment my partner (district UIC) made, was that im not ready to work the plate on a 90'. im thinking..whats that have to do with anything?!?! I never mentioned anything about the plate. He seems to think that im incapable of doin the plate at all, even though he's never worked a game with me behind the plate. Other umpires have given good comments about me when i worked a 11yr softball all stars behind the plate, and even after that, he called me telling me he didnt want me to work the plate, fearing im not ready. my only response was, "You don't get better at doing HP by working the bases all the time" Did work the plate some games during the reg. season. How would you guys handle a guy like that? seems he needs to be proven wrong about my plate ability. Experience is what i need most in order to improve. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=3appleshigh]I apologize for my typo. I should have proofed my post.

I did not accuse Dan of being ignorant. That comment was made about students at large. I did accuse Dan of addressing adults in a juvenile manner. That stands. As I used to tell my younger trainees, "you are not kids in this arena, you are umpires."

Speaking out about the condition of today's affairs is neither rude, nor "making fun." It is simply commentary.

Perhaps he's not concerned about balls and strikes. He might be more concerned about your two person mechanics. Fly ball coverage, rotations etc. I know that if I'm unfamiliar with my partner I'm going try to beat him to the field and work the plate. At least that way I'm in control.

[QUOTE=3appleshigh It is as socially unacceptable as <font color = red>improper spelling and grammer</font>, if not more so.

[/QUOTE]That's what my Grammer always used to say too.

I saw that, also, JR, but I didn't want to be accused of a tit for tat game of "gotcha."

My post was not about the simple mistakes in spelling or writing or typos that we all make, rather it was about know how to address and communicate with adults on an adult level. That was apparently lost on 3apples. I guess I need to learn how to communicate with Canadians on a Canadian level.

I suppose I could start with, "This is a baseball. Notice it is spherical in shape." :D

You left out the <b><i>"Eh?"</i></b> at the end, Garth. :D

Here in LL, we do not go out on fly balls, PU job to call them. There for there is not much of a rotation, unless theres runners, 3 man crew, etc... I need to be given a chance to work both ends of it, not just master the bases. I also found i do a better job umpiring when im "under pressure" and working more competative games.

Dan:

You need to find better umpires to train you then. To say that you don't rotate properly because you umpire LL is nonsense. This is why LL umpires get such a bad rap on these forums. LL training uses the same mechanics used in the PBUC. Big or small diamond has the BU going out on trouble balls to right field from A position. You also need to learn first to third rotation with R1 only on a base hit. Have you been taught how to make that rotation yet?


Tim.

Well, i never went out on a fly ball. Wasnt trained too. in the book it says fly balls are PU's job. I have been taught the roatation with 2 and 3 man(no need for rotation on a four man), but never for going out on a fly ball..we always go in, :rolleyes: Unless my instructors dont know what to do. Tim, in the rotation with R1 base hit, if i understand what you mean, i was taught...go in from A, pivot, follow BR in the infeild grass, going from B staight to C then to 3B if needed.

Dan:

Lets go over first to third coverage. First off, with R1 only you're already in B position on the inside so there's no pivot to worry about. Now, with a base hit your responsibility is the BR as he rounds first. You need to be sure that he touches first and watch for a potential obstruction call on F3 or F4. As R1 is approaching second base your partner should be moving up the third baseline. As soon as he sees him committ to third he should be announcing to you that he has third if the runner comes. Different umpires might say different things, but we use "I've got third, Dan" as we move up the line. This means that as the BU you now have the BR all the way to second should he come, and that PU will take the call at third if necessary. Should an overthrow occur at third, your partner will circle back, usually in fair territory, to take any subsequent call at the plate. Again, you're responsible for the BR if he continues on to third.

Trouble ball to right is quite simple. If you go out from A to take the catch/no catch, you stay out. Your partner will then be left with one runner and one umpire on the infield to take the runner to third. After you announce the no catch you will begin to run back toward the plate in foul territory. Should an overthrow occur that allows the BR to try for home, it's now your call as the BU at the plate. You might find that a lot of us feel that this rotation when done correctly is the prettiest rotation in a two man on the big diamond.


Tim.

sorry, i misunderstood what you meant. Yes, thats how we were doing it last night, PU yelling i got third. PU tried to teach me to call the fly balls from B and C while in the diamond, but not while in A. im going to have a discussion about this. I feel after hearing this we are not being taught properly. Even on the 60' its never heard of BU's oing out on fly balls. I dont know, but ill let you know what i come up with, definate problems here.

What your partner was describing to you was what's referred to as "working the V." Here are the responsibilities when working from inside.

Plate Umpire is responsible for fly balls hit from the left fielder to the left field foul line and into foul territory, as well as from the right fielder to the right field foul line and into foul territory. These responsibilities include fair / foul and catch / no catch on both foul lines. The plate umpire has catch / no catch responsibility for all fly balls handled by the pitcher and the catcher, as well as fly balls and line drives which take the 1st and 3rd basemen toward their respective lines.


Base Umpire is responsible for any fly ball hit directly at any outfielder and all balls hit between the left and right fielders. He will have to shoulder-check to pick up the tag-up at 1st base On fly balls and line drives hit to the infield, he will be responsible for catch / no catch on all balls hit directly at the 1st and 3rd basemen and everything between them.


Tim.

I would caution against trying to describe any "standard" 2-man system for the small diamond. Williamsport doesn't promulgate anything official, and different regional schools teach different things, as evidenced by the televised regionals each year.

For teaching Lieutenant LL Dan via the Internet, I would stick to truly standard mechanics on the 90 foot diamond.

He is describing standard 2-man mechanics for Dan's use on the 90 ft. diamond. Dan is talking about the big diamond, and Tim is talking about the big diamond. What's the problem?

The PU should not be teaching you to call fly balls from B and C. You aren't supposed to just stand in positions B and C like a statue. You need to get to the edge of the infield grass to make your calls, but go no further. Line up your tag responsiblities from there also. Get in a position where you can see both the catch and the runner tagging up in your field of vision. You do not necessarily have to line them up perfectly, just be able to see both events at the same time.

One of the statements made in the discussion between Tim and Lieutenant Dan was:

"Big or small diamond has the BU going out on trouble balls to right field from A position."

While the majority of Tim's comments, other than that one, did appear to be referencing the 90' diamond, I'm not at all sure that that's what Lieutenant Dan was always referring to.

Lieutenant Dan...that's just too funny! Perfect!!!

You're right, Dave. I should have clarified that the possibility of the BU going out on a trouble ball on the small diamond is not a universal mechanic for LL. It's the smart thing to do if there are two competent umpires working the game, but it's not a madated mechanic.


Tim.

LLDan ..........................
 

Perhaps, the UIC HAS seen your work behind the plate and was unimpressed.

Perhaps, the UIC has spoken with fellow umpires that have seen your plate work and was given some unfavorable notices.

Perhaps, the UIC was not enamored of your previous plate resume. (Softball?)

Perhaps, after working with you, he sees the need for a multitude of additional training in all areas.

Experience accompanied by TRAINING is what you need to improve. Doing something wrong alot will not make you better.

Just because you do not agree with criticism, or with the source, doesn't make the criticism wrong.

UIC has not seen me do that plate, ever.

I have worked the plate some this season for baseball, as well as softball, not much difference between the too. When i have worked the plate, its been nothing but positive comments from the other umpires.

Ive worked the 60' with him multiple times, and too many time w/ other umpires LOL. Im doin well, and almost have mastered it. Now, of course on the 90', my first game, im going to have to improve. Now, i have another question requarding that, how do you play the B and C positions? He had me closer to the mound then to second base. Do you agree??

It's up to you. If you are a quick, agile guy, then set up closer to the mound. If you are a bit slower, more toward the base. It's a matter of personal preference.

On pickoff plays at 1st from B, you need to get a couple steps and set for the play. Don't just stand in B flatfooted. They (coaches, instructors) want you to get a better angle. If you can't get the footwork right on this, you will want to work closer to the mound from B.

A differing opinion ...................
 

Not nearly, Grasshopper, not nearly.

Perhaps
 

You may try to read the thread a little more closely. Then you would know that your comments were STUPID. JMOHO

Thanks for the input.