It is now Time for instant replay

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

This is against my better judgement as I don't normally respond to posts with name calling as I do not really care what people think etc. but let's make some assumptions here.

Let's go back to the "golden age of baseball" and we had an internet Forum and I posted the following.

Wouldn't it be great if baseball adopted a DH for F1 and we split the divisions so that we have wild card teams etc. etc.

The response to that Post "back in the day" would be received the way my post is being received, yet look what happend.

Regardless of what you or other posters think about IR, eventually baseball will have some form of it. It's happened in other sports and baseball will eventually "cave in" ESPECIALLY if the Players union vote it in.

Therefore when baseball finally adopts some form of replay what will you say then.

Pete Booth

What do you want us to say?
"Boy, that Pete sure was smart."
"Yep, he was the only one ever to think instant replay was coming to baseball"
"Fer sure, and now that its here, ya know something? It's freaking great!"

Look, Pete, I don't think many believe baseball will never approve some form of IR. However, that doesn't make it a good thing.

MLB approved of the increasing use of the huddle to "get the call right". That doesn't make it a good thing. As often as not, it gets the call wrong.

So in short, when it comes, you won't be the oracle, just another fan supporting a bad idea.

[shickenbottom]

Lets say, for instance that as Pete has prophesized, IR comes into being.

What's next o' great oracle of the diamond?

Umpires on the field disappear, to be replaced by cameras and machines? Questec is already impacting the way umpires call games at those fields where it is installed. The Outside corner is gone at those fields.

How bout on that close tag play at the plate, let's wait 30 seconds to 2 minutes while the play is debated on whether he was out or safe at the plate.

Or how bout that "in-the-vicinity" front end of the double play, did he touch the bag while in posession of the ball or did he miss it?

How bout that whacker over at 1st, did he pull his foot or not. Could you slip a piece of paper between his foot and the bag to determine if he was on or off the bag.

I'm not saying that IR will be good or bad, however, there is so much "percieved" grey area by unknowlegable fans that you could loose the human element of the sport.

Besides, if you take away the umpires and their ability to show they are human and capable of mistakes, who are the fans going to yell and chirp at? The camera guy because he couldn't move the camera fast enought or focus enough on the play to make the decision easier?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Lets say, for instance that as Pete has prophesized, IR comes into being.

What's next o' great oracle of the diamond?

Umpires on the field disappear, to be replaced by cameras and machines? Questec is already impacting the way umpires call games at those fields where it is installed. The Outside corner is gone at those fields.

How bout on that close tag play at the plate, let's wait 30 seconds to 2 minutes while the play is debated on whether he was out or safe at the plate.

Or how bout that "in-the-vicinity" front end of the double play, did he touch the bag while in posession of the ball or did he miss it?

How bout that whacker over at 1st, did he pull his foot or not. Could you slip a piece of paper between his foot and the bag to determine if he was on or off the bag.

I'm not saying that IR will be good or bad, however, there is so much "percieved" grey area by unknowlegable fans that you could loose the human element of the sport.

Besides, if you take away the umpires and their ability to show they are human and capable of mistakes, who are the fans going to yell and chirp at? The camera guy because he couldn't move the camera fast enought or focus enough on the play to make the decision easier?

Pete never said that he wanted it used for every call. The NFL doesn't let them use it to reverse a holding call, you are just being stupid here. All Pete is saying is it is time for MLB to use some type of IR, of course only in certain situations. We all agree we don't want to take the human element of umpires out of the game.

[PeteBooth]

How bout on that close tag play at the plate, let's wait 30 seconds to 2 minutes while the play is debated on whether he was out or safe at the plate.

What do you think is happening now without IR.

On a close play at the plate where one of the players (F2 or the runner) thinks that they ABSOLUTELY made the play and the PU sees it different.

Here comes the manager (especially if it's Lou Pinella) and at least 5 minutes or longer go by and then someone gets tossed.

IR IMO might actually shorten the game instead of having the manager / players go on and on like the energizer bunny before they are finally tossed.

Also, I never said ALL plays be reviewed. The manager would gte a limit of challenges per game.

The only exception would be on a HR ruled Fair/ Foul or if it indeed was a HR or not. In those instances it would be an automatic review similar to football in the last 2 minutes of the game.

IMO, MLB umpires "opened up the flood gates" with their supposedly new found philosophy on "getting the call right" at all costs. If the umpires "left things alone" then this talk of IR might not come up.

In the last several years we have seen umpires huddle more then they ever did. Over-Turning one another without even being asked etc. So IMO it's the umpires themselves that are causing the problem. Not only are they causing a problem for themselves but look at what they are doing for us amateurs.

You can pretty much bet next year some coach will ask us to change a Foul call to fair.

Pete Booth

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Also, I never said ALL plays be reviewed. The manager would gte a limit of challenges per game.

I never said all plays be reviewed, the obvious ones need no review, everyone knows the player was either out or safe, its on the close whacker plays that review will occur. How many of these occur in a given game - 1, 5, 10.

I'll go out on a limb here, lets say that they get two reviews per game. How many do the umpires get? Is there an automatic review on every close play begining in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning? IR can become a crutch for the official to lean on when they can't be 100% sure of their call. Just look at last years Super Bowl.

Getting back to the original situation, I didn't see the game, or the replay on TV. I don't know if poor timing, poor positioning, or loss of focus contributed to the initial half hearted foul call. It doesn't matter, it occurred, the call was changed from foul to fair. Could the runner have gotten a double, tripple, in the park HR? Would the defense have made the play and put out the runner on a subsequent base? Who knows, however, it has opened the proverbial can of worms again for possibly bringing in IR to baseball and how far it goes will be based on what the owners decide during the winter meetings.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

As my instuctor said, "There is no instant replay in baseball" "What happens, happens."

[LakeErieUmp]

Instead of IR how about just letting us give it back to a coach any time they question a call - "Hey coach! Why did you hold your runner on first when the pitcher has that slow-a** delivery from the stretch?" or "You see your outfielders are playing pull and you call for a pitch away?"
That would be grand fun and would provide additional entertainment to the fans (with no delay in the game) like the old days of the Ron Luciano/Earl Weaver blowups!

[bluezebra]

I agree with RonRef. Only those limited situations would be eligible.

And Petey, darlin', in pro baseball they're called managers. Most, if not all, umpires ignore coaches, except on the high school and college level, and then will only talk to the head coach. I did when I umped. Assistant coaches are non-entities.

Bob

[nickrego]

OK Pete, and you can write the "Official Baseball Umpire Play Correction Guidelines" for us all to use.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I can't believe that someone actually had the intestinal fortitude to agree with what I preached a few years ago. Remember when we had this discussion about the Big Ten adopting it and our resident football/baseball/basketball/sociology expert chimed in that it was just a test and that it wouldn't happen throughout D-1?

Pete, while you may not welcome the company I'm up early and am joining you out on this branch. MLB is about entertainment and big money. Wagering is legal on this sport and the outcome may or may not rely on a crucial call by a human umpire. Steps have been taken in a few major sports to create a system that allows correction of certain types of calls. Apparently, MLB allows this to be done, so debating whether or not it sets a bad precendent is moot.

I wonder how many of you would be crying about the end of the world if it was your favorite team in the bottom on the ninth of game 7? Give me a break - they got the call right and MLB allows it. Instant replay may or may not have given Hernandez a better look at the call but it would certainly have been interesting to see.

It'll be here before you know it or even like. There is far too much money riding on it.

[LMan]

Matters not to me, since I'll never work a level where IR would be possible.

[Striker991]

During the Seattle-California/Anaheim/LA game last night, Snelling put down a squeeze bunt that looked perfect; however, it really went off his right front shin. Snelling reacted perfectly, with NO reaction, running to first as if nothing happened. Home Plate Umpire didn't see it as he was blocked out. When questioned, he didn't ask for help. The replay, even at regular speed, clearly showed the ball hitting Snelling. Since the HPU was unwilling to go for help, this would have been an excellent time for the manager to toss out the red flag and request an instant replay review.

This is just an example of Pete's point. However, I do agree with the majority here. Instant replay has no place in baseball.

Striker